Recently we were on our way to church when in the course of playing with the stuffed animal Caroline had brought along the stuffed animal asked Caroline, “What is church?” (Making stuffed animals and dolls ask your child questions is a great, sneaky way to assess what she knows although that wasn’t my intent at the time.) Caroline didn’t answer. Apparently she didn’t know how to articulate what we were doing.
At first I was surprised because we do talk and pray about the church we attend. Obviously it hadn’t made an impression on her. So I had one of those parental moments of, “Why is it my child is five years old and can’t explain what church is? How have I been failing her?”
But to be honest, I found myself almost at a loss to explain it to her because everything I said or thought to say at that moment sounded trite and hollow to me.
“We go to church to worship God.”
Aren’t we trying to teach her that worshiping God happens all the time?
“We are going to be with other people who love Jesus.”
Well, yes, but it’s kinda sad we have to drive almost a half an hour to do this once a week and then we have no contact with the people again.
“The church is where we use our spiritual gifts for the body of Christ.”
Nice in theory, not really happening. And why do I have to go to a building to use my gifts?
I didn’t give her all these answers, but answering her questions about God and the church in recent months has left me feeling like my answers are not heartfelt. It isn’t that I don’t love God or want to serve Him. It isn’t that I don’t believe in Jesus. It is just that our church life is totally disconnected from our real life. How can I help Caroline understand that “church” is important when it doesn’t feel like it matters much in my own faith?
Whatever my faults, I strive to be honest. And when I tell Caroline that it is important to go to church I feel like I am being dishonest with her because it really isn’t how I feel. I don’t feel that being at church contributes in any significant way to my life or faith. Yes, I appreciate the music and I get something out of the sermon. But I appreciate music we play at home and get something out of Scripture being exposited online or in a book as well. Fellowship with other believers? Apparently some people find this, but I’m not finding it.
There is a total disconnect for me. For all three of us really. We aren’t known at church and our presence there (or lack of) really doesn’t make a difference to anyone. I’m not saying this in a sour grapes way, but just as reality. We missed five weeks in a row this fall due to being out of town, sickness, and avoidance and apparently no one noticed except one person who we saw elsewhere and mentioned that she hadn’t seen us around. How do I tell Caroline it is important to partake in church each week when we can miss five weeks and hardly be missed? How can I tell her church is where we participate in the family of God when there are no “family” relationships? What is the point of attending a book study or Bible study when you don’t really matter to anyone there the minute you walk out the door?
Again, I don’t mean this in a sour grapes way, but just the reality that I think so many Christians face. They have a deep hunger for real relationships and it’s just not there. People want to be in meaningful relationships with people that is more than ninety minutes in someone’s living room twice a month where everyone gets 4.6 minutes to talk about their faith and life before everyone races back to their own homes spread forty minutes apart in order to get ready to go to school and work the next day. Honestly I think I would have a better chance of developing a meaningful relationship with the Christian woman who owns the coffee shop in town if I took the time to chat with her more every time I go in there than I do someone in my own congregation. That’s reality.
The other thing I’ve come to realize is that most people in churches do not truly want to get to know you, understand who you are, and know your troubles. Don’t ask me how I know this, but I do. We’ve learned the lesson multiple times although I think the last experience was the one that finally drove home the point. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three or more times and apparently I’m either really naive or stupid. I’ll settle for naive, but I won’t be that stupid ever again.
Karen recently wrote about some related topics in Where does a homeschooling family fit into the church? I related to a great deal of what she wrote and have asked myself many of the same questions. Although her focus was about homeschooling families, there were a few quotes that I thought applied to the broader church in general. She wrote:
George Barna, who researches matters of faith and culture, says that, based on data from the past two decades, roughly two thirds of Christians today see the local church as their greatest source of spiritual growth but by the year 2025, half of the body of Christ will have rejected the traditional church and will be pursuing alternative ways to relate to God and pursue their faith. These are people who recognize that they are responsible for their own personal growth as believers and for ministry to others so they “stop going to church so they can be the Church.”
I left a comment over there and said:
I completely believe this and think it is already starting to pick up. I know quite a few people who love Christ, practice their faith, and take their spiritual growth seriously who have stopped attending church for various reasons. None of them want to be apart from the church, but church had become so problematic that they simply walked away.
While updating my site, I’ve been going through a lot of older posts. It has been interesting to read again some posts related to this topic such as Fragmented Lives, Community, and some other ones now I can’t find. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
In thinking about all this related to churches and doing some reading online, I found some thought-provoking quotes from an article by Wayne Jacobsen entitled “Why I Don’t Go To Church Anymore: Living in the Relational Church.” This is written by a man who is deeply involved in his faith, serving Jesus and living out being the church. In the article he answers a series of questions. It is well worth the read as I suspect it will resonate with a number of us. Here is a sampling.
Shouldn’t we be committed to a local fellowship?
That has been said so often today, that most of us assume it is in the Bible somewhere. I haven’t found it yet. Many of us have been led to believe that we can’t possibly survive without the ‘covering of the body’ and will either fall into error or backslide into sin. But doesn’t that happen inside our local congregations as well?
I know many people who live outside those structures and find not only an ever-deepening relationship with God, but also connections with other believers that run far deeper than they found in the institution. I haven’t lost any of my passion for Jesus or my affection for his church. If anything those have grown by leaps and bounds in recent years.
Scripture does encourage us to be devoted to one another not committed to an institution. Jesus indicated that whenever two or three people get together focused on him, they would experience the vitality of church life.
Is it helpful to regularly participate in a local expression of that reality? Of course. But we make a huge mistake when we assume that fellowship takes place just because we attend the same event together, even regularly, or because we belong to the same organization. Fellowship happens where people share the journey of knowing Jesus together. It consists of open, honest sharing, genuine concern about each other’s spiritual well being and encouragement for people to follow Jesus however he leads them.
and
But don’t our children need church activities?
I’d suggest that what they need most is to be integrated into God’s life through relational fellowship with other believers. 92% of children who grow up in Sunday schools with all the puppets and high-powered entertainment, leave ‘church’ when they leave their parents’ home? Instead of filling our children with ethics and rules we need to demonstrate how to live in God’s life together.
Even sociologists tell us that the #1 factor in determining whether a child will thrive in society is if they have deep, personal friendships with nonrelative adults. No Sunday school can fill that role. I know of one community in Australia who after 20 years of sharing God’s life together as families could say that they had not lost one child to the faith as they grew into adulthood. I know I cut across the grain here, but it is far more important that our children experience real fellowship among believers rather than the bells and whistles of a slick children’s program.
Jacobson answers several other questions and each one could be an entire discussion in and of itself.
There is no tidy conclusion to this post. I still don’t have satisfactory answers for Caroline. I can already tell by age five that she can sniff out dishonesty and insincerity a mile away. I won’t alienate my own child in the faith by giving her answers that are less than honest. I want her to have a vibrant faith of her own. How to help her develop it and where it has the best chance of happening are questions only God can answer as He leads us step by step in the days, weeks, months and years ahead.
Homeschool Curriculum Versus Traditional School Curriculum
I agree with you whole heartedly. For many years I served back in the 70’s and 80’s. Sunday school teacher, treasurer, care giver of kids church and teacher. I loved it all and I loved the people. They loved me? Maybe some. When the divorce happened the foolish preacher tried to talk of it from the pulpit and came to my home alone for details and I did not open the door. After that……I missed my friends and serving but it was never the same or even close. We have attended at least 5 different churches and what I noticed most was the attention given to tithe. Which in the 70’s and 80’s I gave by check and never gave it a thought. Now….money was less but I still gave our tithe. We were watched always for how much or if we gave that Sunday. No close friends have been made like in those years but I do have good Christian friends outside of church. My problem now…..where do we go to church? Is there a place where people care more about people than money? The pastor across the street moved and I just loved the family. I guess some of their ideas were not accepted at the church. After 25 years they moved on with much love given from this church and lots of help to build their new life. Now, I notice the pastor’s wife on facebook has negative to say about old church and brags about how God is moving in new church. OK.
Sometimes I cry weary tears that our world is such a mess and that we just can’t love each other anymore. There are many conditions on our love. I have no answers but I would again help to build and maintain a church where the people seriously loved and cared for each other.
Oh Sallie. This is so profound.
{{{{{{{{{{Rita}}}}}}}}}}}} – Thank you for sharing from your heart and experience. When you have tasted true community and relationships with other believers it is very hard to accept something that is so much less.
{{{{{{{{{Judy}}}}}}}}}} – Blessings to you!
You were NOT kidding when you said I’d relate to the upcoming church post, were you? Wow. This is my feelings 120%…
Just shaking my head in agreement. Nothing to add….
No solutions.
No ideas.
Just shaking my head.
And, I watched the Perry Noble video finally last night when I had 3 minutes to myself. Ei yi yi.
Hi Sallie, wow, what a profound post. I admit, as a Catholic, I can’t really relate, as we go to Mass because we believe God is there in the Real Presence and because it is a precept of the Church. If I was going in search of fellowship as a main goal, well, I don’t think I would go either. And even under this construct, it is a challenge to keep my focus vertical and not horizontal. To focus on the ancient prayer and rather than the sometimes-bombastic music, how others are dressed, whether I like the homily or not, etc etc. I tell myself, vertical, vertical, Glory to God.
My one thought is that maybe there is a denomination out there for you that uses a more standard form of liturgy, where there isn’t much focus on the sermon or the personality of the pastor or fellowship, but where you go to offer the prayers that have sustained others for centuries.
Hang in there. I admire that you are being so deliberate in how you want to teach your daughter. You are right, the children can sniff out dishonestly a mile away.
A very thought-provoking post; it and the comments ring true to me based on different experiences over my life. And I have Christian friends who have stopped going to church entirely for some of the reasons discussed above.
What Ann said had a lot of meaning for me — when I moved from an evangelical to a liturgical church (conservative Episcopalian/Anglican) the focus of why I was attending church changed too. I don’t really go for the fellowship (that is, outside the service), in all honesty. For me the most significant reason to go is to participate as a group worshiping God in the liturgy and Communion. Absolutely, we worship God outside of church, but the group liturgy and Communion is something unique which has great meaning for me. It recharges my spiritual batteries.
I liked what Ann said about trying to keep focus on the vertical rather than horizontal…
Although there are supportive folks at church who have been good role models and supports for my children, especially as they traverse the teen years, I don’t attend events at church outside of Sunday Eucharist, and my meaningful Christian relationships are with people outside of my church. In fact, some of my most supportive Christian friendships are with people I communicate with almost entirely online!
Thank you, as always, for raising really interesting and thought-provoking topics.
Best wishes,
Laura
Sallie, I am so glad you ask only easy questions on this blog. 🙂
I feel like we almost have to start backwards in this. It seems like, ideally, we would begin with what Scripture says the Church is. From there, then, we could talk about why we don’t experience it that way. I found the comment above mine interesting, because when people say they are leaving the Church, the first thing I wonder is what they will do about the Ordinances of Grace.
Hi Sally! I love your thinking spirit :). We have also been on a journey of searching out what “church” means for the last 6 years. We were part of a wonderful home fellowship for awhile, then moved to a place where it was more difficult to find the interactive community that we desired. We’re still searching how to have community in a non-perfect church, how to be that for others without getting discouraged, etc, etc. i agree with so much of what you wrote here. If you have time, you might find some of these articles on “church” interesting. We were part of a fellowship that interacted in meetings this way (which i don’t think has to be in a home…i think a building has advantages too 🙂 and it felt like what church should be, and what tends to be missing. blessings~ kat
i don’t see where the link attached. here it is (hopefully 🙂
https://www.ntrf.org/articles/article_detail.php?PRKey=10
I apologize for my lack of a timely response! We’ve had some very full days. I’ll try to write a more thorough response on Monday! 😀
Okay, so it’s Thursday…. 😯
Some thoughts about the last few comments. I agree that worship is primarily about the vertical and try to keep my perspective in check. As an introvert, the more vertical and less horizontal I get during Sunday morning the better!
That said, the horizontal is still very important. I’ve been in a couple of situations in the past where there was both strong vertical and strong horizontal. I worshiped with people I knew well and spent time with during the week. I was worshiping with them when I was worshiping. When I was enjoying the horizontal relationships during the week, we also discussed the vertical. The relationships were not just about doing things, but encouraging and exhorting each other in the faith. The friendships and worship were very closely related and entwined.
Frankly, any time you experience that… Anything else feels really empty. Yes, I can show up to church every week and worship God. He will meet me there and speak to me through the Holy Spirit. Yes, I can sign up for ways to serve in the church and do my part. But it just isn’t the same.
I’ve pretty much concluded that I’m never going to find that again. Whether it is a season of life issue, a changing church in America issue, etc. I don’t know. But my expectations have dropped significantly to the point where being a part of the church basically means showing up on Sunday. Is that the way I want it to be? No. But I think that is probably what it will come to at this point.
Kat – Thank you for the link. Very interesting. It reminds me of when we visited a Brethren church that functioned like that. Different people participated as they felt led. (Well, not the women, but that’s another story.)
That is hard, if you’ve had what you wanted before, and can’t find it again.
This is actually making me reflect on the fact that it just seems hard to make adult friends in general now, whether through church or not. I feel like everyone is so busy with their own lives, and if they have one or two friendships, they are happy to leave it at that. Maybe they don’t feel a need or have the energy to expand out in an authentic, deeper way, beyond becoming acquainted. I feel like many people’s bandwidth is quite narrow now, due to the stresses of daily life.
Sallie, I just stumbled across your blog, so forgive me if it’s too bold of me to be commenting on this post. I had these feelings too, a long time ago. Then I found the Orthodox Church, which has tried to preserve Christian faith and practice exactly as Christ handed it down to the apostles. If you are looking for deep, real connections, Orthodoxy is worth investigating. Here is an essay that may interest you, giving the Orthodox perspective on the relation between Christianity and Church.
https://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/christianity_church_e.htm
A very thought provoking post. I do believe that ‘church’ is important, but very often what is established as ‘church’ isn’t really…what I mean is that it is so disconnected from that very early church we read about in Acts. Meeting together, eating together, sharing everything together, rejoicing together, suffering together. I reckon that’s what everyone should be praying for a return to; a church that belongs to Jesus and reflects His nature. Wouldn’t that be wonderful?
Sallie, I happened upon this blog entry today by some sort of strange 7-degrees-of-separtation type event, but I hope I can encourage you since this hit so close to home.
I completely understand from where you are coming. We have had a VERY long journey in discovering WHAT exactly the Church IS and what is its function—including how staring at the back of someone’s head was supposed to be fellowship. We have been to very traditional churches, non-traditional churches, good church organizations and even home fellowships, so I hope in my experience, I can offer you some encouragement.
I want to say thanks for posting that article from Wayne Jacobsen. Really great stuff and it was spooky some of what he wrote–like he was eavesdropping at my house! I couldn’t agree with him more that until we understand that WE are the Church, the body of Christ and that it is indeed NOT a place just to “go to” and check your box, so to speak, life has never been the same! We have grown in Christ in ways that I never thought possible. It’s just not a place to attend, but it is what we are!
To answer your question, YES, the organized ‘church’ today is not what it should be, and the trends are getting worse. I would encourage you to seek the Lord fervently and find out what you actually want to teach your darling daughter, Caroline about the Church and its function; because I completely agree that she can see right through the garbage. Doesn’t she deserve the truth from God’s word and that alone? I think my dear children do, and I would assume you think the same thing.
Sallie, I understand there is comfort in conformity, and the road of Biblical truth vs. man-made tradition isn’t easy, but it’s always worth it in the end. I like how Mr. Jacobsen put it: “But ultimately what matters most to me is not where or how they meet, but whether or not people are focused on Jesus and really helping each other on the journey to becoming like him.”
I pray that you will find your answers and follow the Lord to where He wants you to, knowing that we all grow in different environments. It’s okay to ask questions (I have lots of them), but Jesus is SO awesome, He wants to give you wisdom and lead you into all truth through His word. Bless you and your family as you are seeking the Lord!