I must be crazy, but here is the question: Do you spank? I’ve been thinking a lot about the to spank or not to spank debate and would honestly like to hear your experiences and convictions.
Questions About Spanking
Here are some possible questions.
- Do you spank? Why or why not?
- Did you start spanking and change your mind? Decide at first not to spank and now do?
- Do you believe “spare the rod and spoil the child” is a biblical directive?
- When do you believe a child is old enough to obey and be spanked for disobedience?
- If you don’t spank, what do you do?
- And if you could only recommend one book related to discipline to a new parent, which book would you recommend?
Please focus on explaining your own view of spanking as opposed to trashing the opposing view. Thank you.
Should be an interesting discussion!
2018 Postscript
Update in 2018: What follows in the comments is a very interesting and respectful discussion that took place when my daughter was about fifteen months old.
In the end, we changed our mind and did not spank. You can read about our decision with our daughter in the post 6 Reasons Why We Changed Our Mind and Stopped Spanking. I do not endorse all of the comments below or all of the books recommended in the comments, but I include this post and the comments on my site because I think it contains valuable insights regarding why people choose to spank and choose not to spank.
Caroline’s Current Obsession: Eloise Wilkin Stories
What a topic! I have to second Jess’ last comment the 18 – 30 month age is probably the most difficult no matter how many – my third is 24 months and quite a handful. It’s humbling though!
Anyways…spanking! We DO. And it has been quite effective. With the little crawlers it’s just a hand smack or two, I find our kids have learned very quickly what they can touch and what they can’t. Then somewhere around 18 – 24 mos we’ve graduated to the bottom. The child is always removed from the situation and sent to their rooms to “talk” about what happend. The process is threefold 1. Clarifying what the offense was so they understand they deserve the punishment 2. The punishment (spanking) 3. Reconciliation – the child needs to seek forgiveness and forgiveness is offered. THEN the issue is DONE. Its over and not held against the child any longer and the misdemeaner is not mentioned again.
What finally convinced me that it was right to implement physical punishment was comparing it to the gospel. Jesus suffered a VERY physical and painful punishment on our behalf. The brutalness of the cross shows us just how serious sin is. Jesus didn’t take a time out on our behalf! God doesn’t tell us to “try harder” next time. He doesn’t manipulate us into to good behaviour with a reward for doing better (his rewards are based on Christ’s work.) He lived a perfect life in our places and then suffered the death we deserve. By spanking our children we show them the seriousness of their sins (ie not honouring their parents, coveting, etc…).
The one book I continually go back to is “Shepherding A Child’s Heart” by Tedd Tripp. It is sound and balanced and really gets into how to draw out our children’s hearts and lead them to the cross. Spanking is just one facet of the whole process of teaching our children the ways they should go. I can’t commend the book enough.
Questions arise as I read the last post… if Jesus suffered on the cross and said “It is finished” then why do we need to intentionally punish our children? And is physical punishment the *only* way to help children understand the seriousness of their sin? Are they qualitatively different than adults in that way?
(I have some serious concerns when people link the need to spank to the theology of the cross…)
We started using spankings (read: a quick swat on the tush, not several hits in a row) when our son turned 2. He is 3 1/2 now. In the last year and a half I have used spankings only when absolutely necessary, but, I tell you, the child knows I mean business when I say, “If you refuse to listen, the next step is a spanking”. More often than not now, the warning is all it takes for him to straighten up and fly right.
At times it wasn’t easy to spank, but now we are reaping the benefits of laying down the law when and how we did. Spankings are obviously not the route for every child, but they are effective in our home.
I recommend Lisa Whelchel’s Creative Correction. She touches on spanking, but offers a plethora of alternative approaches to childrearing (no pun intended). I’m actually leading the Creative Correction Bible study at my church right now and it’s been a Godsend for the ladies in the group. Even when you’re not agreeing with what she says, Lisa still gives you plenty of things to consider.
Thank you so much for the excellent discussion! I especially appreciated the comment that this is the hardest age to parent. I mentioned in an email to a friend this week that I can’t wait until Caroline can TALK CLEARLY. I feel so badly when she tells me something over and over and I can’t figure out what she is saying!!! I can tell she’s frustrated or disappointed and it breaks my heart to not know what she is trying to communicate!
So what are some good disciplinary options at this age, say especially the 18-24 month timeframe? And does someone have an answer to Zan’s excellent question (comment #23)? I have not tried a timeout yet, mostly because I don’t think Caroline would understand the concept at this point. And what do you do with the child who LAUGHS at you when you try to discipline them? Any idea how to differentiate between “I’m laughing because I’m a toddler and I think this is another game” and “I’m laughing in defiance”?
Oh Sallie… I’m right there with you.
I’m dealing with that same stage where they can’t effectively communicate, have realized that they don’t always want to obey, and also definitely have a “will of steel” child who will laugh at your face when she’s spanked HARD after she’s told not to reach for knives in the dishwasher and does it anyway.
Sallie, I so wish I had the same answers you are looking for. I’m looking forward to being able to understand what she’s trying to communicate; I think it will eliminate half our problems. I’m stumped for what to do with this age.
I’ve exhausted all the tools in my tool box, similar to Zan. I believe spanking to be within biblical parameters, but only as a last resort, which we’ve visited with absolutely no positive results. I’m actually a little glad that that method was not a keeper for us. I don’t want to allow myself that outlet and use it to justify myself when I’m frustrated. How am I to teach my daughter how to constructively express her emotions when I fail to do it properly?. But frankly, I was very annoyed today when, after hearing me say that spanking does not work with my child, was asked if I had tried a wooden spoon or strap!!! Frankly, I have no stomach for doing that to a child when I have no assurance that they understood what they were asked to do in the first place or what the offense is that they are being punished for.
I was never a fan of the “counting” method. But when I was doing a Bible Study recently, I was astonished to see how often God gives “warnings” to us, and I began to wonder how I could offer less grace to my child than He does to me.
Throughout the entire Bible, we see Him tell His people where they have wandered (used their free will poorly) even when they already knew the correct course of action, warn them that if they don’t change their ways there will be consequences for their choice to continue to follow their own selfish ways instead of responding to His directives. Using His example, I think it’s quite appropriate to give our child the warning (whether verbally or by “counting”) to straighten up or there will be unpleasant results.
I, too, have misgiving’s about using the Gospel as a means of justifying spanking as biblical (not to say it isn’t). When I look at the Gospel from the Father’s heart, I see a God who took the sin and it’s consequences upon Himself to spare His children.
I’ve enjoyed “How To Make Children Mind Without Losing Yours” and while it offers some great, realistic advice, it’s not easily implemented with a toddler. I just bought “Grace Based Parenting” and am looking forward to that. I would like a “method” to take all the guess work out of it for me, but am wondering if God just wants to keep my on my knees in this area!
Hi Sallie
I’m just a lurker here so why I’ve decided to choose this controversial subject to weigh in with my two pennies worth I don’t know!lol! Parenting a toddler is so very difficult, especially if they are quite willful. It takes patience and discipline and an awful lot of love. The child is just getting to the stage where they want to explore the world, where they’re very aware of their wants but not too good at expressing their needs. It often makes an intelligent, imaginative child quite frustrated.
I believe that at this stage consistency is the key. Discuss with your DH what is considered “naughty” behaviour and what is considered okay. Choose your battles, stick to your guns and make sure you and the rest of the family are singing from the same hymn sheet. How you decide to punish is absolutely up to you. It’s incredibly personal. We do not spank, neither one of us believes that it is right, we also believe that “the rod” in the Bible isn’t necessary a literal rod, but a metaphor for discipline and consequences. We use the “naughty chair”…a minute on the naughty chair for each year of the child’s life. We also ask them to apologise and make sure they understand why they’ve been disciplined. We also use the “rule of three”. We inform the child that their behaviour was wrong and why, if they continue we inform them that they will visit the naughty chair unless they stop and if they don’t stop they go to the naughty chair.
We rarely use the naughty chair now and our youngest is 4. I hope this helps you. You may want to pray about this with your husband before you come to any firm decisions. Child-rearing is such an adventure!
Sallie, you DO like to stir the pot. don’t you?
Well, after raising 6 children, all of whom we spanked, if I were to do it over again, I do not believe I would spank them. After reading many of the articles that have been done on researching the topic of spanking and the meaning of “rod” etc. I am not convinced that the Bible commands parents to spank their children.
But, more importantly, a few years ago it occurred to me that my children are also my brothers and sisters in Christ and that the one anothers of God’s word also applies to my relationship with them. It gave me an entirely new perspective on what it means to have empathy towards them.
I would encourage you all to read here:
http://www.motheringbygrace.com/forum, especially the links to the articles on use of the rod. There are also many great suggestions at this site for articles and books to read on positive discipline.
My favorite book on parenting these days is Clay Clarkson’s book called Heartfelt Discipline: The Gentle Art of Training and Guiding Your Child. In one section he explains how he moved from being a father who spanked to one who does not. Good food for thought.
Karen
We only used spanking for getting the message across for sure about dangerous activities – e.g. running into the road, reaching to pull down something hot from the stove. For the road, a few swats on the bottom, for the stove, on the hands. In that sense “spanking” is different from “hitting” a child.
I thought hard before writing this…..probably a first for me! I was smacked as a child and I have smacked as a parent. However, I have reservations about the understanding of ‘spare the rod, spoil the child’ and about people’s understanding of the fact that different forms of discipline work well for different children. I will confess that there have been times I have wanted to give a mighty whalop- and am thankful afterwards that I have not.
As a child, it wasn’t so much the fear of a smack as the shame of letting my parents down that held me back.
My husband was smacked with an implement at times- although he says it was less than 5 times he can remember- when he was really bad. I don’t remember specific instances (although I do remember running to the top of the house and poking my tongue out for all I was worth!)
I very much feel that to smack in anger is wrong and I believe that is one of the greatest challenges to parents. I have been quite perterbed recently by some people who have advised me to smack my son harder when he does not respond. One has no children, the other has a child too young to be smacked. They have no idea how hard I might currently smack my son, yet they say- do it harder- if I comment that he is not bothered by it. I am not happy to smack harder than I do (mostly on the hand) or more frequently than I do.A smack comes after repeated warnings and counting- and most of the time the warnings and counting now work. But they wouldn’t if I had not been consistent. My son is three. I did not smack him until he was over 2 years old. If I smack his bottom it makes little difference to him as he wears nappies! But smacking is not a tool to use constantly with him as he is not really bothered by it.I would like to think that by being firm from early on I will not need to smack much in the future. He learns that to consistantly disobey mummy has consequences.
I am trying to remember what I did when he was younger. It was a case of constant removal of an item(or the child) from a situation most of the time and called for a lot of patience. To smack because you cannot be bothered to try another form of discipline is not right imho. Sometimes a raised voice is enough. As parents though we really have to decide on our ground rules and stick to them. I personally think that constantly shouting at a child is more damaging emotionally than a few moderate smacks.
I once read this example: LIttle childe comes running accross the recently cleaned kitchen floor in dirty boots, holding a flower he has found for his mother. Mother gets really angry and shouts at/punishes the child. What does the child learn? If the child had not been warned not to come in with dirty shoes or did not know that the floor had just been cleaned then all he learns is not to take nice things to mummy. A bit off the track of ‘smacking’ but I hope the illustration is clear- we must know why we do what we do as parents and set simple rules.
Our one rule for our son is this- obey mummy and daddy. Consequently it is quite clear cut when behaviour is outright rebellion and may need a smack as correction.
I probably tread a middle ground. If my second child (only4 months) is different from his brother then I may find I don’t need to smack, and certainly won’t do it for the sake of it or because I believe that scripture says I have to. OK, long ramble over…..except to say that being so tired with two I am constantly having to re-evaluate my discipline decisions as I do not want to look back in years to see that I did what I did out of frustration and tiredness.
Sallie,
The laughing at you is most likely a stage. We encountered that with both of ours when they were about Caroline’s age, and I think it’s pretty typical. Annoying as heck, but typical. We found that timeouts worked really well for our first child who was accustomed to lots of individualized time with adults. To move him away from us in another room was the worst thing he could imagine. So his behavior changed quickly so he could resume his place with us. One minute of time out per year of age is a general guide. And it won’t work immediately or even every time, but it’s an easy thing to begin at this age.
Sallie,
We do spank when we feel it is necessary. Usually after we spank lovingly and not out of anger, the issue is resolved and we only need to say a firm “obey,” or “no” in the future. Of course then another issue will arise 😉
I love Shepherding a Child’s Heart, and the old Dare to Discipline (haven’t read the new one).
My husband and I do not spank. I was not spanked in my family growing up, but my dad would occasionally be in a rage and hit the mattress next to me – which terrified me, actually. One important point of discipline is to model self-control of our emotions, and I certainly didn’t see that in my dad in those moments.
My 2 1/2 (almost 3 year old son) gets time-outs. Yes, sometimes he will get multiple time outs in a row. Is it not effective, then? Actually, yes, I believe it is. He has been known to ask for a time out when he has begun behaving poorly. I think a great thing about a time out is that it helps him (and me!) to calm down before we interact and reconcile. It shows him that sometimes we all need some time to cool down, that we all make mistakes and need to seek forgiveness for our errors. When he once hit his one year old sister with a hard toy, I was so angry that I yelled at him and he raced into his room for his time out. When he was quiet, I opened the door and told him that I needed a time out too. I sat in his time out chair, and he sat quietly on the floor next to me. After a few moments, I asked his forgiveness for yelling at him, and announced that I was done yelling. He said, “I forgive you.” Then I talked to him about hitting his sister and he said sorry, too. I forgave him, and we hugged. I have noticed that he is very able to engage in reconciling with other kids as conflicts arise, and he is also quick to show compassion.
All this is to say, my bottom line is, disciplining is part of a larger picture of showing our kids that although we ALL fall short of the image of God, God is perfect and we are able to extend compassion and grace to one another because of God’s love. To me, spanking is a contradictory thing because it is punishing hitting with hitting and seems to be a short-term solution without the kind of results I’d like. Any child will stop doing something if an adult is violent enough in word or action, but who will they perceive themselves to be, and who will they perceive their parents and even God to be as the years go by?
We spanked when the ‘natural’ consequence could have ended in tragedy.
Recently, I have become a BIG fan of the show “Supernanny”. I first started watching it because I thought it would be stupid, and well, you know how one just cannot watch TOO many stupid shows (i was sick at the time). But, oh, how she teaches parents to be consistant.
This has caused me to think how many times as parents we just ‘gave up’ because we had other more pressing things to do, and a spanking seemed to be the easy/quicker answer.
I regret that.
It takes time, a lot of time, to rear a child properly.
Yes, we do spank for direct disobedience and defiance, not for childish behaviors or sibling rivalry… I too would recommend Shepherding a Child’s Heart for an overview of parenting. The thing that so many of us miss in parenting and I can honestly say wasn’t emphasized with me as a child is getting to the heart of the behavior. Sure any type of discipline can lead to behavior modification, but are we really working to change the child’s heart? Believe me, I have a long way to go with my children:) I also recommend Don’t Make Me Count to Three by Ginger Plowman. She gives a lot of practical ideas for reaching the heart of the matter…
What helps me to parent? I look for some data about what works and what does not. I’ve never seen any convincing studies showing that spanking works. To me, it’s more about the parent wielding his/her anger. Using your anger to convince your child is a recipe for failure.
A lifesaver for me and many other parents I know: “1-2-3 Magic”, author Phelan. Better as a video. Using timeouts in a consistent fashion to get positive results. It’s worked for us for about 5 years now.
Hi
I’d recommend Parenting by the Book by John Rosemond. He gives a good and balanced look at spanking, talking about the various biblical meanings of “rod”. The book is pretty practical and affords a good perspective in my view.
You know, I was just thinking…
Besides what I’ve read on some blogs, I have no historical context in which to place the word “rod”. I mean, yeah, I’ve heard the typical conservative church’s presupposition that it is an instrument to spank with. But…
I mean, it’s a stick, right? Well goodness gracious, how many things can be done with a stick? I just got to thinking that the average person of today really has no idea what in the world a rod was, what it’s function was, how it was used. I know that I certainly don’t. So, again, I’m just thinking out loud here…
A stick can be used like a baseball bat, or a hockey stick.
A stick can be laid on the ground and used as a boundary.
A stick can be used to direct something, as it’s used with sheep or pigs.
A stick can be used in combat, sometimes both combatants have them… I don’t know what it’s called then (a staff?); I am a girl, after all!
A stick can be used as a cane, to lean on for support.
A stick can be supported at the ends and used to play “limbo”… ;o)
A stick can be used like a scepter; you know, like the king extended to Queen Esther.
A stick can be used as a measuring tool.
A stick can have a piece of string and a hook tied to it and used to catch fish.
So maybe I’m being silly… like I said, I’m just thinking out loud. I’ve never done a biblical word study on this. I’m just wondering why we assume that “rod” has only one definition and use.
Like someone quoted above, “Thy rod and Thy staff, they comfort me”.
I don’t want to look back and regret following a formula or rationale in some book; though don’t get me wrong, I still read books. But lately, when I read them I’ve started to compare what I’m reading against what the Only Infallible Book tells us about how the Only Perfect Parent does His job.
Direct and willful disobedience is what I spanked for.
I don’t “smack” or “hit”.
And I understand that “Gentle” mothering has been a term used for those who never spank, however, I am a very gentle mother. I think that saying gentle mothers don’t spank implies that the rest of us are brutes which is not the case.
Like someone quoted above, “Thy rod and Thy staff, they comfort me”.
The Book of Proverbs says, “13Do not withhold(L) discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die.
It seems pretty clear that “rod” when referring to discipline at least, includes the physical. When the Psalms says “thy rod and Thy staff, they comfort me”, it’s referring to people as sheep. I’ve been around enough sheep to know that the “rod” can be used in ways other then as a sign of authority (sheep don’t “get” rods as a sign of authority) and as a means of gentle guidance (sheep don’t seem to get that either).
I think that spanking can be used rightly and it can be used wrongly. We spanked, but spankings were few and far between. I remember being spanked twice as a child and I richly deserved both!
We can ask “does God use physical discipline?” Ask all those folks who were stricken with leprosy. On the other hand, God uses “time outs” also – call them “disfellowshipping”.
The trick is to key in on what works for THAT child – and once you have it figured out, the child matures a little bit more and you have to change tactics. When my son was young he slammed his bedroom door hard enough that a picture fell off the wall. I took a screwdriver and popped his door off the hinges and put it in my closet for a week. No spankings, no yelling…but very effective.
I don’t think badly of people who spank…so much depends on the child involved and what that child responds to (and on the situation).
How do you spank without hitting? I’ve always felt the hitting/spanking isn’t the answer. It does seem a little like “I’m the adult, so I can hit you, but don’t you dare hit your brother…” I do not have children at this stage, so it is quite possible that when my child runs out in front of a car I may think differently!
Sallie – as many before me have said, it will most certainly be up to you and your husband to find something that works for you and your family. We all hold onto our beliefs of how to raise a family and it doesn’t mean that others are wrong. Good luck!
Sorry if I’m repeating but I haven’t taken the much needed time to go through all the comments.
I will say this, study the scriptures and recommended books, mine are Bruce Ray’s Withhold not Correction and Ginger Plowman’s Don’t make me count to three.
I do agree with spanking where there is wilful disobedience. I don’t agree with some of the methods other commentators have suggested such as removing toys, this is basically setting the childs sin to the side and not dealing with it. The naughty seat can be used to encourage obedience but I would fear that the heart will be embittered, it’s like sending a child to their room, they are more likely to be caused to sin by showing anger and bitterness than being truly sorry for their actions.
Again counting to three just encourages your child to know that they can continue to disobey until mum or dad is a 2.5. What we ought to expect is immediate obedience. Just what God expects.
Don’t make me count to three is an excellent book which encourages parents to look at the heart issues of discipline.
The heart of the issue is what we are trying to achieve, show them their sin, show them sin must be punished, require them to seek forgiveness and ensure they are convinced the issue is over and they are forgiven. Surely we have the perfect example of this in our relationship with Christ.
I am thankful that we were well taught in this area before we had our children, don’t hold back and live to regret not using the Biblical example.
Blessings
I guess I’ll come out of lurkdom to weigh on this topic also. We have 6 kids, and have a number of ‘tools’ we use for correction. Spanking is one of them. It’s used only for direct, in-your-face defiance. As in ‘I hear what you’re saying to me, and I choose not to obey you.’ I am big on choices/natural consequences, but not for defiance. Shades of Dr. Dobson coming out. Also, when a child is to be spanked, they are sent to sit on my bed and wait till I come up. This gives them time to think, and me to collect my thoughts. Then we discuss the problem, administer the spanking, and pray and cuddle afterward. If the child doesn’t understand what they did, obviously, they don’t get spanked then, they would just get an explanation.
I started this when my babies were old enough for me to say ‘no’, and for them to look at me, grin, and go right on doing what they weren’t supposed to do. That would generally get a hand smack, or a smack on the diaper, and redirection. Some of our kids were more strong-willed than others, and needed more spanking. My oldest was the poster child for the Strong-Willed Child.
I will say that I don’t have the defiance issues or rebellion with my teens, due in part, I think to not letting them defy me when they were younger. But it’s all part of developing a relationship with your kids from early on, where they know what the boundaries are, and that you will consistently enforce them, but as they get older, you will also let them broaden their horizons too. And lots of love and fun, along with consistent discipline.
One of the things I do with my kids is ask them ‘Are you choosing to disobey me?’ This clearly identifies that there’s a problem, and it gives them the chance to save face, as it were, and not cross the line. And if they choose to openly disobey, then there is a consequence.
Books- they’ve all been mentioned. Shepherding a Child’s Heart, and also Paul Tripp’s Age of Opportunity, Dobson’s The Strong-Willed Child, Kevin Leman’s books, and Ginger Plowman’s. I also really like Lisa Whelchel’s.
I will admit I have only skimmed all of the comments between my last comment and here. I plan on going back and reading them all later this evening.
But I have been thinking A LOT about this discussion the past few days. Especially the double standard of telling a child not to hit someone and then the parent turns around and hits them. I realize some will differentiate between spanking and hitting, but still.
Just the past two days Caroline has started slapping our hand or arm if she doesn’t like something we do. Well, monkey see, monkey do. We’ve lightly slapped her hands and told her no. And she learned by our example. Now if we do something she doesn’t like, she slaps our hand.
Sigh. David is right. Whoever said parenting isn’t for cowards was so right. 😛
On the other hand, I have some great Caroline stories to share when I do her seventeen month update post later this week. 😀
A quick book recommendation, although I only just started it (seems good so far!):
Title: Positive discipline for preschoolers : for their early years–raising children who are responsible, respectful, and resourceful
Author: Nelsen, Jane J
Publisher: Prima Pub.
There’s no way around it….spanking is hitting.
There are many ways to deal with children besides hitting them. Many good ideas have been mentioned in some of these comments. It may take time and effort and experimentation to come up with things that work for your children, but it’s entirely worth the effort.
My husband and I never spanked our children, who are all grown now into fine Christian adults who don’t spank their children either.