I must be crazy, but here is the question: Do you spank? I’ve been thinking a lot about the to spank or not to spank debate and would honestly like to hear your experiences and convictions.
Questions About Spanking
Here are some possible questions.
- Do you spank? Why or why not?
- Did you start spanking and change your mind? Decide at first not to spank and now do?
- Do you believe “spare the rod and spoil the child” is a biblical directive?
- When do you believe a child is old enough to obey and be spanked for disobedience?
- If you don’t spank, what do you do?
- And if you could only recommend one book related to discipline to a new parent, which book would you recommend?
Please focus on explaining your own view of spanking as opposed to trashing the opposing view. Thank you.
Should be an interesting discussion!
2018 Postscript
Update in 2018: What follows in the comments is a very interesting and respectful discussion that took place when my daughter was about fifteen months old.
In the end, we changed our mind and did not spank. You can read about our decision with our daughter in the post 6 Reasons Why We Changed Our Mind and Stopped Spanking. I do not endorse all of the comments below or all of the books recommended in the comments, but I include this post and the comments on my site because I think it contains valuable insights regarding why people choose to spank and choose not to spank.
Caroline’s Current Obsession: Eloise Wilkin Stories
We don’t use any form of physical punishment and we never will. Neither of us were brought up with any form of corporal punishment. We don’t feel it’s necessary or effective.
Our kids are still very young, but I feel like just because one of us is always around them to “gently redirect” before something turns into an issue, we haven’t had any major discipline issues yet.
Our kids are also very sensitive, so even a stern No is enough to teach a lesson, and if needed, a Time Out. As they get older, I imagine we’ll have to have some sort of punishment if needed, but I’m a big believer in taking away privileges.
On books, this is one place that we haven’t done any reading. We really use our parents as guides.
Hi Sallie!
I don’t have children yet, but I was spanked occasionally as a child and wanted to weigh in. My parents spanked me very infrequently and in only very serious situations in which I did something that endangered myself or others. I think for my strong willed personality, the occasional spanking worked well, however my parents did not spank my younger brother. His personality is very different from mine. I’ve always been strong willed, but very much a rule follower and very receptive to punishment. My brother on the other hand doesn’t respond to threats or punishment. He responds to reasoning, while punishments make him respond stubbornly.
I think “spare the rod, spoil the child” is a figurative Biblical directive. Discipline in whatever safe, healthy form you believe works best for Caroline is a Biblical directive. I believe the manner in which you believe works best for Caroline is at your discretion.
You are doing a great job with her, that’s obvious to your readers! Don’t forget to extend grace to yourself.
Sallie,
My husband and I do use spanking with our son. We are just now starting because he is 19 months old. We feel it is appropriate because he has had times of direct defiance to us along with blatant hitting and such. He is so strong-willed that anything else doesn’t work at all right now (we’ve tried time-out). When we do spank it is quick and effective. We then explain why he was punished and that we LOVE him so much and that is why he is disciplined. He then gets as many cuddles as he needs.
I strongly recommend Dr. Dobson’s “The New Dare To Discipline” as a great resource in this area. He is pro-corporal punishment and his reasoning is very level headed. I am almost done with the book and I have to say there isn’t much I disagree with. I have learned a lot in regards to discipline. Even though he is pro-corporal punishment he is the first to say that it should be RARE…only in times of outright defiance and disrespect. He also says that you should be done with it around the age of six and at that time you transition to completely using “loss of privileges.”
I was spanked as a child but it was rare. My Dad “made it count” in that just knowing a spanking could happen was often enough to keep me in line. That being said, I was never abused. He never used a switch, belt, or spoon and there was never any lingering effects. It was just enough to keep my parents in that place of rexpect that they deserved. I too look to my parents as people who did the discipline thing well.
Hope this helps!
Yes, we did spank. I have been wanting to write a post about this.
I don’t see how Christian parents can get around it with verses like Proverbs 13:24 (“He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.” and Proverbs 22:15 (“Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.”) and Proverbs 29:15 (“The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.”) I have heard people try to explain the word “rod” there away as meaning “authority,” but that just doesn’t make sense to me.
We didn’t, however, spank very often. It was a Really Big Deal when we did. We tried to only spank for deliberate, willful defiance. I gave a wide berth to make sure the child knew what he was doing was wrong. In general (I can’t say I never made a mistake), if there was doubt, I’d explain things to him again and give him another chance.
And we did use other methods besides — redirecting, natural consequences, etc. I don’t think we ever used time out — that seemed ineffective to me, though some say it works for them.
I meant to recommend Dobson’s Dare to Discipline, too, though I have only read the old one.
This will be a busy thread ;o)
We do spank, but I won’t use it to punish hitting (seems too weird to me). I also believe that spanking can be very infrequent– especially if the parent is consistent.
The youngest probably got her first spanking between 18 and 24 months. We generally reserve(d) swats for voluntary (defiant) disobedience of a command we know they can obey.
In making your decision about what to do with your child, I’d say keep your options open. Our “sensitive” and less strong-willed daughter we used to *never* spank, while we would her younger sister. Then (they were a little over 2 and 3 1/2) we had to reverse methods.
The 3 1/2 y-o suddenly got the time concept down and was no longer fazed by time-outs: “Oh, I get it, I sit for a little while and go back to my life;” and the little one got a “thicker skin” than we were willing to spank through.
Sometimes we aim our spanks to hurt (discomfort being the measure of most punishment) but more often I like to describe what I do by the phrase in The Horse and His Boy: “not a cruel one to make you cry but a sharp one to let you know you are in disgrace.”
This was very effective for my sensitive child during that season.
Honestly, I’ve tried a little bit of everything, and that’s what I recommend to you or anyone else. It’s how I’ve settled on my tools of choice, spanking being just one of them.
Just chiming in with a book recommendation.
I really like Shepherding a Child’s Heart by Ted Tripp.
Now why do some of you think I”m asking this question for myself? 😉
Well, I sort of am and sort of just because I love to raise all these controversial topics. 😀
Seriously, this is a very important topic. I know there are a number of new moms who read here and I would like to hear from the experience and wisdom of others.
As a former teacher and babysitter of many years, I’ve dealt with all kinds of children, including those blessed little ones who dissolve into tears and obey if you just raise your eyebrow wrong at them. I’m here to tell you, folks, that my sweet little Caroline is most definitely NOT in that camp. OH. MY. We are in the “I’m sweet as sunshine 98.7% of the time but I have a will of steel and almost anything you do is going to make me dig in my heels” camp.
And I do want to add… I am really interested in hearing what people have to say about when a child is old enough to consistently obey because this on my way front burner right now. I realize it will vary from child to child, but what tells you that a child should be able to take a simple command and obey it? When do you expect a child to obey immediately? Is that even a worthy goal? (I know some people say no it is not a realistic goal.)
And where are all the Gentle Christian Mothers? So far this has been mostly the other side of the coin. Don’t be afraid to speak out! 🙂
Sign me up on the gentle Christian mother list as I wrote above : )
In fact, this thread is kind of upsetting me a bit, so I’ll probably not check back on it again.
But carry on.
New mom here, so no advice. But, I am really enjoying reading Dr. Kevin Leman’s book “Make your kids mind without losing yours.”
He is not an advocate of corporal punishment, but rather of natural consequences.
I would recommend Dare to Discipline and How to Make Your Children Mind Without Losing Yours. These are the two books that greatly influenced how my very young parents choose to raise me and my siblings. I see they have both already been suggested by others, but thought I’d also throw in my support for these two books.
This is an issue that my husband and I struggled with for quite some time. Our children are grown and nearly grown, so spanking hasn’t been an issue for about 10-12 years. Looking back, I can remember saying I’ll never spank my children. For my 1st two daughters, the most effective form of discipline was removing them from the situation (a time-out, if you will). Shoot, my 2nd daughter only needed a withering look from me and the knowledge that she made someone upset to send her to tears and a change in behavior. She has always been so very tender. Then along came my younger two children. My son and youngest daughter could have been (and still are) the poster children for strong-willed children. They were spanked! but only because the other forms of discipline were ineffective. Spanking only happened when there was willful disobedience. You know the kind of disobedience when they know what they should or shouldn’t be doing, yet they would look me in the eye and do it anyways, usually with a defiant, what-are-you-going-to-do-about-it look. This only went on (infrequently) for a few years. I wonder how much of my willingness to spank was due to the fact that I was exhausted constantly (4 kids in less than 6 years, the youngest two 18 months apart and both very ADHD). I’m sure that factored in to the equation. Spankings abruptly stopped around here when my youngest daughter said to me (with a smirk and a smarty-pants attitude) after a spanking, “That didn’t hurt”, and I was oh-so-tempted to wallop her to the point where she WOULD feel it. I nearly crossed the line that day and I can say I’ve never spanked since.
None of the kids now remember ever being spanked. I just asked them all. But I remember each one so clearly. I don’t know if this rambling helps you at all. My kids now are, for the most part, well behaved and respectful young people.
I was the kid who got spankings and should have gotten more. 😉
We do spank. When it’s done effectively, you don’t have to spank often. As we see it, it is a God-given tool (in the toolbox of MANY parenting tools– including redirection, a gentle word, the occasional time to sit and cool off, losing privileges/toys, etc.) that allows poor behavior and attitudes to be swiftly corrected so that the relationship can be fully restored. I have also noticed that with spanking, particularly when the attitude is out of whack, the attitude and countenance are quickly restored to a place of joy and being able to interact kindly with others, whereas other methods (time outs, etc.) tend to lengthen the bad attitude, making it go deeper and drag on, getting worse and worse.
I almost didn’t respond, because this is so controversial and seen as such a horrible/wonderful thing. I don’t *LIKE* spanking. But I see biblical admonitions to do so. I know what I needed as a kid (I was, apparently, like Caroline– the child with the will of steel who was generally happy and content but look out when I wasn’t!). I also know that I’ve received some pretty unsavory but necessary “discipline” from the Lord; I don’t resent Him for it– I’m thankful He loves me enough to not let me stray from His fold! And I see the fruit of it in the lives of our children. Like I said, when it’s done effectively, it doesn’t have to be done often.
Those are my general thoughts. Hope this helps you weigh things, Sallie. 😉
Blessings~Jess
Ann – I hope you will keep contributing because I find myself somewhere between both general ideas. I welcome different perspectives here on this issue because I trust the Holy Spirit to lead each family to the decisions that will work best for their family. I am not opposed to spanking philosophically (when done correctly), but would prefer not to spank. And am already coming to the conclusion that spanking may not work with Caroline. I felt the same way about crying it out. I could see how it might work in some circumstances, but didn’t think it would work with Caroline.
Jess – Yes, this is a controversial topic, but I think moms need someplace safe to discuss these things. I’m trying to provide that forum. I also realize that some people will not post their thoughts for fear of exposing their views to public scrutiny. And that is fine.
I know where Caroline gets her strong-willed personality and it isn’t from her Daddy. Pressuring and cajoling and needling me to do something that I don’t want to do just makes my resolve that much stronger. Peer pressure does not work on me. Reasoning does. The problem is I can’t “reason” too much with a sixteen and a half month old. So I’m trying to sort through what will work best in the meantime and what is appropriate at this age. 🙂
I also meant to add that redirection has worked really well with Caroline for the last few months. Now not so good. Any ideas on how to redirect a child who doesn’t want to be redirected? 🙂
Thanks Sallie. I guess we all have some things regarding parenting that we are “zero tolerance” on and this is mine. So, perhaps I should have refrained from commenting on this one.
I think your daughter is at that tough age (18 mos or so?). Mobile, capable, communication skills still growing. It’s a rough age. Hang in there. Keep redirecting, reprimanding, work in a Time Out, it will work.
On books, I remember the most helpful book for me at that age was John Rosemond’s “How to make the terrible two’s terrific.”
I think it is an extremely personal decision that only you and your husband can make. There are about 8,000 layers to a parent/child relationship that we don’t know and are unique to each of us and our relationships—so who am I to say how you should parent?
I think God gives mothers that “instinct” within us. If it doesn’t feel right, dont’ do it….and likewise.
Spanking has happened in our house at times, but as the kids have grown, I’ve found it is a very ineffective method of punishment for us. They do better having a consequence such as having to give something up for a day, etc. In the “real world” one day, employers will not spank for bad behavior, but they may take away part of your paycheck!
“His rod and his staff comfort me.”
I don’t think, if rod meant what a lot of people think it does, that passage would read the same way! The king didn’t beat his people with the rod, rather, it is a sign of kingship, just as a crown isnt meant to hold your hair down.
I was spanked as a child, but only until about age 5 or 6. I don’t remember it ever hurting, and I remember it being in very specific situations. I also remember thinking from the time I was 3 or so that it was proof that the world was full of hypocrites. I got in trouble for hitting my brother, and my dad hit me?
But that was my personality. Spanking really didn’t work on me: if anything, it made me resentful. My brother, on the other hand, needed to be spanked. He would stick his hands in his ears and yell “LALALALALALA!” if you tried to reason with him, or send him to his room, or… etc, etc.
Will we spank? it will depend! I’ve already warned my fiance that if we have a daughter who is ANYTHING like me, she’s all mine. He’s of a more authoritarian school of thought on kids, and I know if my father had stuck with that with me, it would have been a real disaster. But again, they really needed to get that hard core with my younger brother.
I do think that spanking needs to stop once the child becomes verbal and at all rational, short of extreme cases.
This is a tough subject. My husband was raised by a very strict father. By todays standards he might have been considered abusive. I was raised by parents who did spank on occasion. I can remember being spanked and as an adult I can see that it was justified.
I have given my daughter (19 mos old) a swat on the bottom from time to time. I reserve it for major things. Example… she keep playing with the front door lock. I told her several times not to play with the lock. She continued to play with it and finally I told her if she played with it again I would spank her bottom. I did have have to give her bottom a couple of swats and she hadn’t played with the door lock since. I just felt I had to get through to her because it was a matter of her safety. I can’t imagine if I turned by back for a minute and she was able to walk out the door!
We mainly use time out. We started it when she was 15 months. At that time I thought she could understand simple commands. We will tell her to something and if she does not do it we will tell her again with a warning that if she continues she will go to time out. It has been very effective. Now if she is told something and it looks like she is not going to listen I will say would you like to sit in time out and usually she says no and then moves on to something else.
I taught pre-school for many years and I find that disciple for my own child is very hard. I know it is neccessary, but still, it is hard.
Sallie,
You have now entered what I have found to be, with each child, the most difficult phase. They are old enough to know what they want, but not communicative enough to be able to explain fully what they want. They know what you want them to do, generally, and are mostly able to comprehend simple things, but they now realize that they don’t *HAVE* to obey. They don’t *WANT* to be redirected, etc. 😉 Anyway, hopefully you’ll find what works for you and for Caroline. Just be reassured, it’s a hard stage (imo) no matter if it’s your first time or your third (although moms like Michelle Duggar probably have it all figured out!). 😉
~Jess
This is a difficult issue to discuss, I find myself in the middle ground really 🙂
Many blessings Sallie.
I’m in the middle, too.
How do you keep a naughty child in time out? I have to threaten a spanking to keep my toddler in time out. He doesn’t stay there.
So, what do you do? Threaten time out if they don’t stay in time out? I’m not trying to be funny.
In the end, I don’t think there’s one right or wrong answer. Just like what works with one set of parents won’t necessarily work with another, what works with one child won’t necessarily work with another. What matters with punishment is that it convinces a child that certain behaviors are unacceptable or dangerous (or both).
As we’re learning as our children get older, the punishments have to change. Taking away colors or fun time was good when they were little. Now, not so much. With our 9-year-old son, I offer to punish him with extra homework or the dreaded Mama Kiss of Death (the kiss – with bright lipstick – in front of all his friends). As kids grow and change, the punishment style has to grow and change, too.
And no, we don’t spank. Never have. I understand that it works for some parents, but we were never comfortable with a rule that they should never hit (as an example) being reinforced with punishement that included us hitting.
Hi Sallie,
I chose not to have spanking/hitting as a tool in my parenting tool-box and I do not believe that we are actually commanded to “spank” our children. I respect that for some families it works and I don’t think they are sinning by spanking, etc. I just feel strongly convicted that for very personal reasons that while it might not be sin for others to spank their children, it is sin for me.
TBH I am vary wary of online discussions about this topic. I feel like I’ve been posting about this topic and discussing it for so long (ha, 4 years) and I myself have changed as a person and parent and have been, well, humbled. Long ago I made a decision that I would try not to spank, that I would try to teach and correct my children in gentleness yet with firmness. And I’ve been praying for wisdom ever since, so I know I made the right decision. Really, the decision about spanking is a pivotal one and a controversial one for many, but I think that as parents that we make so many even more important decisions that cumulatively have a larger impact than our decision to spank or not. A parent who doesn’t spank but is permissive or neglectful or fails to set boundaries is just as damaging as a legalistic parent who spanks too often or a parent who ignores behavior and then blows up in anger (reactive parenting, etc) Really, all the parenting “styles” have their pitfalls for those who follow them, especially if we are headstrong and insistent on parenting in our own strength. That’s when I mess up. My best advice to myself and others is pray more, love more, don’t lose sight that we are blessed to spend our time in the presence of these little people God has entrusted to our care.
I do recommend a book, though… Ted Kimmel, “Grace Based Parenting.” Very good insights I think…