I must be crazy, but here is the question: Do you spank? I’ve been thinking a lot about the to spank or not to spank debate and would honestly like to hear your experiences and convictions.
Questions About Spanking
Here are some possible questions.
- Do you spank? Why or why not?
- Did you start spanking and change your mind? Decide at first not to spank and now do?
- Do you believe “spare the rod and spoil the child” is a biblical directive?
- When do you believe a child is old enough to obey and be spanked for disobedience?
- If you don’t spank, what do you do?
- And if you could only recommend one book related to discipline to a new parent, which book would you recommend?
Please focus on explaining your own view of spanking as opposed to trashing the opposing view. Thank you.
Should be an interesting discussion!
2018 Postscript
Update in 2018: What follows in the comments is a very interesting and respectful discussion that took place when my daughter was about fifteen months old.
In the end, we changed our mind and did not spank. You can read about our decision with our daughter in the post 6 Reasons Why We Changed Our Mind and Stopped Spanking. I do not endorse all of the comments below or all of the books recommended in the comments, but I include this post and the comments on my site because I think it contains valuable insights regarding why people choose to spank and choose not to spank.
Amie
This might sound silly but I am so enjoying watching you go though this process Sallie, and I mean that in a good way. Your willingness to look at all the options and your insistance on not just following whatever fad has come along is inspriational.
AFA spaking goes, in our family we don’t spank in theory……….we don’t think it is the most affective form of discipline and we don’t believe that it is Biblically mandatated. That is not to say that I have never spanked before or that I think that my children are ruined because I did. Parenting is hard, and for me, spanking is the easy way out, I want immediate (outward) results over a certian issue and I want to prove that I am boss, I can do that with a spanking. UGGG, it is a hard situation.
I know there is a big push toward the Sherparding a Child’s Heart “type” spanking where you talk about the why’s behind the disobediance, and you spank until the childs attitude is right (sweet), and you concentrate on the sin, use scripture, all that……..my thing with that is that if you are doing all that, then why do they still need to be punished? Jesus already took care of that……..it just doesn’t compute for me. Also, the thing that turned me off of Tripp was a class that I went to, once, were the women teaching it looked at me (and she didn’t even know me) with my infant nursing and said, when that little baby wiggles and she is suppose to be still that is an illitration of the sin in her life and she needs to have a swat on the thighs for it. Which (and I haven’t read the whole book) but is an opinion held by Ted Tripp……very scary.
I think at Carolyn’s age redirection is the key, for me it is hard when I have to redirect over and over and over and over, but developmentally how long is a 1yo’s memory? Another thing that I found helpful was an article about building fences. I will have to find it for you, I know it is on my blog somewhere. Anyway the point is that, when we put of a fence for our child’s well being some children are going to push it a little and then we secure that it is strong and move on but some (like my Ellie, btw) are going to kick it, claw at it, and do everything in there powe to make sure that that fence is secure, and it is our job as parent to stand strong, but I don’t think that we HAVE to spank kids to keep that fence.
Okay, so I didn’t mean to ramble on this long……..blessings to you Sallie and your sweet family!
Sallie
Amie (#51) – Thank you so much for what you wrote in the first paragraph. You know, sometimes I think after I post something “Why did I post that? People will think I’m stupid for asking that.” So I’m glad that isn’t always the case. 🙂
Rebecca
My husband and I were sure we would spank prior to having children. We couldn’t understand how anyone could disobey what seemed to us to be a direct Biblical command.
We don’t spank. As we started to study out the “rod” verses when we were expecting our daughter, we were really surprised by what we found.
People keep saying “Does spanking work for you? Then use it” but doesn’t that make the end justify the means? I think the real question ought to be “Is spanking Biblical?”
We certainly thought it was – until we started to study out the rod passages and to ask ourselves how God deals with our sin. (For what it’s worth, I have a BA in Theology). I was really surprised to find that the word “beat” used in reference to “beat with the rod” is also translated into English elsewhere as “slaughter” and is often used as a war term referring to beating someone within an inch of their life or actually killing them. It is also used for clapping (which would accomplish nothing in the realm of spanking) The few times it’s used out of the context of war and clapping the hands, it still refers to a very forceful action. There is nothing gentle about it, nothing, “just enough to get the job done” about it.
As for “if you strike him with a rod, he will not die” this is in direct opposition to the Law of Moses wherein Moses laid down the penalties for what would happen when a slave was struck with the rod and *did* die. Certainly if striking with the rod can kill a grown slave, it can also kill a small child. Thus to take this verse literally does not fit in with the context of the rest of scripture – which is one of the rules of Biblical interpretation, that a valid interpretation can’t contradict the rest of scripture.
Another rule of interpretation is that if the Bible itself uses an object symbolically then it’s safe to interpret that object as symbolic elsewhere. The rod was used symbolically all throughout the Old Testament: the rod of Jesse, the rod of God, the rod of… all symbolizing the authority of that particular individual or tribe. Click here for a complete list as well as a complete look at the rod verses.
Someone else commented on here that we have no cultural context for a rod. Bridging a cultural gap is another rule of interpretation. If we had never ever heard of spanking, I wonder if we would read the “rod” verses and interpret them as “hit on the butt (or maybe hand) just hard enough to get the job done and do it in love too”. We are all guilty of interpreting the Bible through our own particular cultural and experiential lenses sometimes, myself included. It’s really hard not to.
The rod, other than most times as a symbol of authority, was in Biblical times a King’s scepter, a shepherd’s rod, or a walking stick. It is also used once to refer to a writing implement and once to darts. Mostly, it is something strong enough for a man to lean on. Thus to interpret the rod verses literally they mean that we should be using a huge stick (as a writing implement wouldn’t accomplish anything and darts don’t apply) to literally beat the snot out of our children. Somehow I don’t think any of us would agree that is what God intended.
As for books, I would also recommend Clay Clarkson’s Heartfelt Discipline. I think too that it’s important to look at the background of the writer. One of our most popular Christian parenting authors has *no* background in theology or Biblical interpretation.
Once we were clear that Prov was not commanding us to spank our children we were really mystified as what *to do*. We had no idea! So we started looking at how God parents us – how He deals with our sin. (We didn’t discover any good books until much later!) We found that instead of wanting us to be punished, he sent Jesus to pay the price for us and we read over and over and over and….that Jesus sacrifice was enough to take care of all sin “once and for all”. Click here for detailed info and scripture verses on that. One verse even goes so far as to say that having begun in the Spirit, depending on Jesus sacrifice, that if we lay aside the grace of God we make Jesus death to be of no purpose! Wow! I surely don’t’ want to do that for my child! If Christ’s sacrifice is enough for my sin then surely it’s enough for my child’s sin.
We also noticed that in dealing with our sin (even in the Old Testament) God was full of mercy and slow to anger. He did, as someone pointed out here, give numerous warnings. And his main intent was not to punish our sin so much as it was to restore us back to proper relationship. So we try, when our daughter disobeys to ask “How can we restore her to right relationship with God and man?” rather than “How can we punish her?”
So “time out” for us is never in another room or done punitively. More like “Sit til you are calm and ready to obey.” Then our daughter, who is only 2 and ½ by the way, will proceed to take a few deep breaths, pray to Jesus for help to obey or to be calm or whatever (usually with no promptings) and then tell us she’s ready to get down. Unless she’s bouncing off the seat hyper, we let her get down. Kids will stay in time out much easier if they view it as a positive thing. If not, most toddlers have a booster seat or high chair that they are used to being buckled into daily. 😉
As for spanking for safety issues, there is always another way. A kid who darts into streets can be put in a stroller, carrier or have a backpack strap (tho they do remind me of dog leashes I must say lol) til they have the impulse control and understanding to stay out of the street. A child trying to touch knives in the dishwasher can be put in a nearby high chair etc while the dishwasher is being unloaded til they come to understand that they can’t touch the knives.
In studying how and when God punishes people, my dh and I found that He only does so in 3 situations: the heathen, those who are very mature or in times of great spiritual happenings so they really ought to know better (sons of Korah, Annanias and Saphira, Miriam, King David) or those who have backslidden so far as to be almost on par with the heathen. That makes me really think twice before ever doing something punitive to my child! We use a lot of cause and affect, logical, natural consequences. So if the stroller is pushed into the dog it goes bye by because she isn’t able at the time to be responsible with it.
We hear so much emphasis on the rod verses in light of parenting, but what about Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.”
Or “Fathers provoke not your children to wrath”
This woman has a great cultural understanding of the rod and historical info on spanking.
It’s obvious I’m totally against spanking, but I want to make it clear that I do have friends who spank. We as Christians ought to never be divided on issues but rather focus on the things that unite us and agree to disagree when necessary. So yes, I will stand up for what I believe and explain it when asked, but at the end of the day, we each stand responsible before God not only for how we raise our children, but also for how we show grace (or don’t show it) to those who believe differently than we do. I know that we are all seeking to do the right thing.
Lizzie
I’ve read Shepherding a Child’s Heart twice and don’t recall that Ted Tripp said that you have to swat your wiggly baby.
The lady that taught the class could have hugely taken things out of context or that could have been her own opinion.
Elizabeth
I think that it was actually the Pearls in TTUAC who recommended spanking a wiggly baby. I am not a fan of Tripp’s book but I also agree I don’t think he said that. For me, the book just doesn’t line up theologically. Unfortunately it is very popular in a church that we’ve recently started attending, but I think that’s because it’s an SBC church and spanking is an “cultural” thing for Baptists, so most just read the book and it “makes sense” to them because it’s consistent with what they’ve heard much of their lives.
Amie
Thanks for the correction on the Tripp thing……..the class was “shepharding a Child’s Heart” so I guess that is how I made the connection. The thing with SACH, and I have only skimmed it, was the the first half made sense, I just couldn’t understand how he made the “heart” part into the practice part.
(also, I am so embarrassed about all the typo’s in my other comment :::blush:::: I mean I have horrible spelling but really!) 🙂
Sallie
This discussion is almost four years old, but it was quite interesting to go back and read it now that Caroline is five. I get fairly regular hits on this post from search engines so I decided to do a follow-up post. (I’ve actually thought about taking it down since spanking is so controversial, but there is good information here for parents who are thinking through this issue.)
In the end, we do not spank. As I said in a previous comment, some things clearly would not work in our home. Cry it out was a no way. Time outs were a no way. And spanking was an absolutely non-effective way of correcting or disciplining. While some might see a difference between spanking and hitting, I just can’t. We have had to use every creative ounce of energy we’ve had to try to figure out how to discipline Caroline. Would I say we have it figured out? Honestly, no. But it was clear to us that spanking was ineffective, majorly counterproductive, and damaging to the parent/child relationship in our home. (And please no comments that we didn’t “do it right or it would work” because that is not the case.) So spanking has not been a part of our home for a number of years and I wish we had never even tried it. Even the small amount we spanked (for willful disobedience) I wish we had not. I think the biggest thing for us was getting through the years when Caroline could not communicate effectively. Once we were able to better communicate, discipline became much less of an issue. We have focused on rewarding good choices and that has been much more effective in our home.