If you didn’t see the news over the weekend, Doug Phillips of Vision Forum confessed to an inappropriate relationship with a woman not his wife. If you aren’t familiar with all this, just do a search and you’ll find plenty of reaction.
Way back in 2006 I took a public stand against Doug Phillips and Vision Forum. Coming out against VF was not a popular move. At the time I had a well-read blog. But when I said that there were some serious problems with Vision Forum and the teachings coming out of there, my numbers took a hit. I’ve never regretted taking that stand and I’d do it again in heartbeat.
Doug Phillips is no stranger to controversy or accusations that he is heavy handed in the way he deals with people he believes to be his enemy. For some truly stunning examples, see this lengthy explanation on the Well-Trained Mind forum or Jens Gems. If you want to read more, Karen has done so much to expose the problems with patriarchy, Vision Forum, etc. She has also started a new series on this.
So who is to blame for Doug Phillips’ resignation and the current mess? How could this have been avoided?
Obviously Doug himself is partially to blame. That’s obvious and I’m not going to spend my time there. Others have analyzed him to death this weekend. I’m moving on from that.
But where else does the blame fall?
Way back when all of the controversy around the Epsteins was going on, David and I were involved in some discussions online. We have NEVER forgotten one of them and we still refer to it almost seven years later. In the midst of the discussion where the ideas of DP and VF were taking a beating at the hand of those of us actually trying to think logically and based on Scripture, a man said, “We need Doug Phillips to speak about this.” Spunky of Spunky Homeschool was also involved in the discussion. She jumped in and said, “No, we don’t need to hear from Doug Phillips so we know what to think. We need to be Bereans and study this for ourselves.”
BINGO.
A good portion of the blame for this situation goes to every follower of Doug Phillips and Vision Forum who never took the time to be a Berean. Who took in what DP said hook, line and sinker. Who got sucked in by the gorgeous catalog and the swanky conferences. Who looked to Doug Phillips and his message of the perfect family instead of Jesus Christ and His message of grace, repentance, and forgiveness. The average VF customer who was not a Berean is partially to blame. The only reason VF and DP have the influence they do today is because people kept giving them the dollars.
Some of the blame goes to the men around him who chose to fear Doug rather than fear God. Unless the men around him are so spiritually and emotionally bankrupt that they truly cannot tell right from wrong, they HAD to have known that the way DP and VF did business was not right. There are too many stories of ruined lives to explain them ALL away as being the problem of the other people. Did DP deal with some difficult people? I’m sure he did. And I’m sure that at least a few times he was probably in the right. But this many times? No way. And so the men who surround him, work with him, speak with him, etc. are to blame for this situation as well. Perhaps if they had tried to check him at some point, this would not have happened.
I also put some of the blame on conservative evangelical leaders who did not call him out or distance themselves from him. My personal theory is that most of them are unwilling to do so because they don’t want to rock the boat. They don’t want to be on anyone’s bad side because that can mean fewer speaking opportunities, fewer book endorsements, and so on. Burning bridges isn’t wise if you have or desire a national platform. And so they looked the other way.
I also think some of the conservative evangelical leaders did not call out DP and VF because the rally around complementarianism has been so strong the past couple of years that they are unwilling to undermine anyone who is in their big tent of complementarianism. Did they think DP was a bit extreme? Probably. But their dislike of egalitarianism is so strong that they are willing to look the other way even when one of their own is a bit nutty in what he’s promoting. As long as he’s not an egalitarian, they’re going to just pretend everything is okay.
Which brings me to the women.
Are the women to blame?
Which women are to blame?
Are the women to blame? It is hard for me to say yes, but yes. They must shoulder at least a small portion of the responsibility for this situation.
His wife is in some small ways responsible. She made the choice along the way to go along with his teachings. She made the choice to either look the other way or participate in the unChristlike way he treated others. She had a choice to look at Jesus or at her husband. She enabled him.
The woman he became involved with is partially to blame. She made the choice to respond to his advances (or she made the advances herself). She made the choice to continue to put herself in the situation where this unfaithfulness took place. Even if Phillips is her superior (employer, elder, etc.), she still had a choice. She had a choice to look at Jesus or look at Phillips.
But wait! Sallie, how can you say that? How can you blame the women? They didn’t have a choice. They are so indoctrinated that they don’t even know they have a choice to stand up to him or reject him.
BINGO.
And with that you have proved my point.
This entire system is toxic to women. Poison. Horrible. Oppressive. Wrong. Unbiblical. Evil.
Do you want more words?
Filthy. Destructive. Wasteful. Disgusting.
Do you want me to put them in all caps so I’m shouting?
Yes.
THE ENTIRE SYSTEM IS TOXIC. HORRIBLE. OPPRESSIVE. WRONG. UNBIBLICAL. EVIL.
Either the women are to blame or they are victims of a terrible situation.
Make a choice.
Either the women around him are partially to blame or they are victims of an incredibly unhealthy cultic theological system.
If you didn’t read it, go back and read that comment in the Well-Trained Mind forum. It is sickening. Disgusting. Vile. Horrific. How can anyone think that Jesus would treat women this way? These are not the ramblings of someone not in the know. These are well-established facts that have been public knowledge for a long time.
This is a system that destroys women. That denies them the very basics of personhood. It is a system that treats women like total dirt. Jesus would NEVER treat women like this. NEVER EVER.
You can’t have it both ways. Either the women are to blame or they are being spiritually abused inside a horrible, evil, disgusting cultic system.
And if I sound angry, it is because I am.
How many families have been destroyed in the past seven years because no one was willing to stand up to this man? How many young woman are still stuck at home with no life and no future because their parents listened to this man?
Other people spent the weekend expressing sympathy for his wife and family. Fine. Feel sorry for them. But right now I’m feeling angry and sorry for all the lives that were destroyed because this garbage spread year after year.
Think about how his children will suffer for this all you want. Fine. I’m sorry for his kids, too.
But I’m even more sorry for all the young women (and men) who were shamed and vilified because they had an interest in someone of the opposite sex while the man promoting the shaming was apparently doing the same thing and still out there preaching against it.
Yes, I’m angry. I’m angry for every person who was turned off to Christ and Christianity because this garbage was forced down their throat.
Yes, I’m angry. I’m angry for every parent who provoked their children to such despair and anger with these teachings that they felt they had no choice but to flee their own family so they could have a life.
Yes, I’m angry. And if you’ve been paying attention, you should be angry too. This kind of stuff is horrible for what it does to people and their view of Jesus Christ and Christianity.
It sickens me when I read blogs written by women who escaped this garbage and now are atheists. It sickens me that this is their view of Jesus.
Jesus loved women. Women loved Jesus.
And it sickens me that people will still call VF today and order more of this garbage and destroy more lives.
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Thanks for speaking up in ’06. I was reading your blog at the time and continued to read it despite the fact that I didn’t agree then, with your article. When my family and I faced the facts of what Doug Phillips was teaching and how it was affecting the lives of our homeschooling friends, particularly in relationship to marriage and daughters staying at home, I took comfort in the things that you had written. I believe that you were a part of my eyes opening to what was really going on. Our family has suffered much at the hands of patriarchy. I am grateful for the faithful friends who guided and aided us during our time of difficulty. Thankful too, that God has kept our children from leaving the church even though it would be reasonable to do so in light of what they have experienced.
I am a huge opponent of VF ministries. However, I cannot agree with the lack of mercy and love in this post.
That being said..I LOVE your original post in 2006 that expresses exactly what I feel about VF. Very similar experiences.
Well said!
Michelle,
This post is full of love and mercy – for the victims.
Thanks, Paula. I am so glad your family has found freedom and healing. Thank you for letting me know God used me in a small way to help. 🙂
This is something that isn’t well known to anyone outside my immediate family, but for a time I was sucked into the patriarchal mindset. They all just looked so “perfect” to me – they were doing everything “right”. For reasons that sometimes I can’t even understand, my thinking was that if I could just follow all the rules & regulations, that my life & my family would be “perfect”. Having undiagnosed health problems at the time (later I was found to have Fibromyalgia & CFIDS) made my mindset even more bizarre – there was NO WAY I was EVER going to be able to achieve even one iota of what these “men” wanted me to. But I bought all the books, and we faithfully attended all the seminars, workshops & conventions. To make this more strange, Doug Phillips called my husband, and asked him to be a part of an organization he was forming in Texas called Vision Forum Ministries. Well, gee, golly, wow – what an honor, right? But you know, the only thing my dh said after that conversation was, “that man is CRAZY!”
It was only when our oldest son met a young lady whose family believed in betrothal, did I become a Berean. But it was too late. Our son was okay with his future bride’s & her family’s belief system, mainly because of what I had taught him at home during our years of homeschooling. As our research into the patriarchal mindset deepened, we were shocked, and my eyes were thoroughly opened, thank God. But unfortunately our family wasn’t patriarchal enough to suit our son’s in-laws, and he was counseled to cut-off relationship with us. Our son was gone from our lives for almost four years. But praise God for His mercy & grace, the relationship was restored.
I apologize for rambling here, but much of my weekend was spent thinking of the young lady involved in this situation, and looking back on how we were treated by homeschooling friends, especially those in leadership in our state homeschooling organization (we were advisory members). My heart just aches for her, and I am continually lifting her in prayer. Yes, I understand she made a bad choice, but I also KNOW what is being said about this young woman in the patriarchal circles. Because I know what was said about me. The pain & the guilt is so overwhelming – I am afraid for her.
I thank you so much for writing this article. While my writing skills are not the best, I have tried over the years to speak out about the patriarchal movement, and keep home educators informed of this toxic belief system. There have been times I have wondered myself why others (pastors, homeschooling leaders, etc.) do not speak up. Several vendors of homeschooling curricula have privately messaged me on Facebook and explained that they cannot speak up, because it would very much hurt their sales. Personally, I think that is bogus, but it is their choice. For you to urge everyone to be a Berean is perfect advice – because that is where the rubber meets the road. No matter who we are listening too – – we should get out our Bibles and look it up for own selves!
Michelle – this post just oozed love & mercy. Now on the other hand, if I would have written it…..well, not so much! ;-D You need to walk a mile in the shoes of families who lives have been devastated and destroyed by the patriocentrists; then you will understand.
Thank you for writing this.
I’ve backed over several paragraphs that I’ve written here, but truly, what can anyone say? You’ve said it all.
Sallie,
You have said it well. BINGO! I have read some of those young women’s stories that are now proclaimed “atheists” and they are shocking. The hypocrisy of it all.
I truly believe that so much of this comes from wanting to do things better for our kids. It really wasn’t until one of our grown kids was in a serious relationship that we began to really examine what the scripture said about it all. There are SO many opinions out there. We were told that they shouldn’t even be holding hands. They were in their 20’s. When I shared that I didn’t feel that I needed to tell a 24 yr.old son what to do, I was told, you could because he still lives in your house. How Crazy!! How did we all start to listen to this?
We have to search the scriptures and pray and not put these men on a pedastol!!
Sallie,
You have said it well. BINGO! I have read some of those young women’s stories that are now proclaimed “atheists” and they are shocking. The hypocrisy of it all.
I truly believe that so much of this comes from wanting to do things better for our kids. It really wasn’t until one of our grown kids was in a serious relationship that we began to really examine what the scripture said about it all. There are SO many opinions out there. We were told that they shouldn’t even be holding hands. They were in their 20’s. When I shared that I didn’t feel that I needed to tell a 24 yr.old son what to do, I was told, you could because he still lives in your house. How Crazy!! How did we all start to listen to this?
We have to search the scriptures and pray and not put these men on a pedastol!!
Oh, Sue, stories like yours are the reason Sallie and I will not stop exposing this paradigm and challenging others to use discernment! Bless you for sharing this. {{{{{}}}}}
To say that the woman is to blame for adulterous affairs and such is kinda like blaming a woman for having a miscarriage. OR even worse for blaming a women for getting raped! Sarah was married to Abraham and he slept with many other women. Tamar example…think of all the other examples right down to David and bathsheba.
The real issue here is Doug Philips lack of repentance to Christ alone. That cuts out the man’s desire for lust in the flesh and puts his mind on things of heaven. Cuts out on pride and other failures of men. To me Visionforum is very focused on patriarical topics and nationalism. Those things aren’t focused on Christ’s ministry which he says, “ye shall be hated of all nations for my name…..” There is no focus on martydom and living for the truth in an ungodly world right up to talking and sharing gospel with gangsters or muslims etc.
Having a picture perfect family as vision forum displays is possible but only when the truth is infecting the entire family. Otherwise it is liberalism at its finest and appears good but with inward rottenness.
Patriarchal movement is a dangerous movement away from Christ. Perverting the minds of daughters so that they no not where to turn if their father is a “pig” and can not control him self.
I feel aweful if people look at doug philips and think that he is a model Christian man. That is not truth. A person can only find Christ by giving a cup of cold water to one who asks, clothing the naked and such as christ asks us to do….NOT by obeying the words of Doug Philips. He is man and likely to fall into any trap.
I don’t want to hear of families who now have chosen to abort their future children in their family because Doug Philips failed. That would be foolish. He sells Christian literature…..and so does walmart and if you have lived long enough you know that the owners and managers at Walmart stores are not sin-free humans either…..
I have encountered a leadership failure like this before…. I went to a “christian” college and the professor openly left his wife and kids for another woman. We need to trust Christ, not the leadership we see in front of our eyes. If anything, homechurch and reading the words of Christ will give you all the spiritual nourishment you will ever need and you can freely go as you please.
Thank you Sallie! I am very thankful for you and Karen and Virginia and the others who have researched and spoken out for the last 7yrs or so. You have all encouraged our family, children now grown up, to be Bereans & to share the facts about this craziness and your blogs are great resources “out in the field”.
Wow! I’m learning so much from these articles. I just want to know if you are a professional cult-extraction counselor or something? Very thorough. I don’t think calling something sin is harsh. I wrote an article on this subject also. It seems so wimpy compared to yours. http://organizedeveryday.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-death-of-vision-or-start-of-new-one.html
But I’m a newbie in this stuff:)
This is great writing. Thank you!
It seems to me that if you were to write again about the problems with Vision Forum – the 2006 article you linked to – it would be a lot stronger on the disapproval. Am I correct? Did your view of them get worse since then?
“The woman he became involved with is partially to blame. She made the choice to respond to his advances (or she made the advances herself). She made the choice to continue to put herself in the situation where this unfaithfulness took place. ”
I think it’s too early to say. Since we don’t know who Phillips was involved with, we don’t know if it was an affair between consenting adults, or something more exploitative. If she was a minor, or if force or threats were involved, she should be recognized as a victim rather than a willing participant. Once we have more information, we’ll have a clearer picture of the whole debacle.
Hi Ahab,
That was the point I was making. If it was consensual, she’s partially to blame. If it wasn’t consensual…. The teachings of VF and DP set women up for sexual exploitation because it renders them basically incapable of telling a man – ANY MAN – no. They are trained from their toddlerhood to obey men without question.
Sallie, that last point is so important. We have to remember that the young women who are raised in these circles are purposefully kept childlike. Remember the book Fascinating Womanhood? Mormon writer Helen Andelein tells followers that being childlike is appealing to men. The Ladies Against Feminism have recommended and even linked to this dreadful and unbiblical book! More on this ideal here:
Scroll down to the article The Cult of Godly Womanhood
http://www.midwestoutreach.org/Pdf%20Journals/2011/fall_2011_mcojournal.pdf
All I can do is shake my head. There is so much venom and accusation in this article. Really??? Blame his wife for his sin? Blame our family for buying toys from Vision Forum’s catalog? I read the article again and I’m seeing a lot of what you think, but, not so much of what God thinks. Where in scripture dose it say that we should blame others for one man’s sin? This all smacks of so much pride. How about a call to humbly pray to God for Doug Philips, his wife, his family. How about praying for the other woman to come to repentance and a closer walk with God. How about prayer for unity in the church. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone. It’s so easy, in our pride, to throw rocks at someone who has fallen. Where is the mercy and grace?
Hi Robin,
Thanks for your comment. This post is not just about one particular person making a mistake any of us could make. This post is about the systematic exploitation of women and girls within the VF and DP community.
I don’t know if you’ve read anything else on this blog, but I encourage you to do so. This post in the context of everything else I have written about will make much more sense. Did you read all the links I linked to, especially the on at the Well-Trained Mind forum?
I am sorry for his family and I stated that. I’m sorry for more than just this one event in their lives, but what his daughters have probably lived with their entire lives. But I am more sorry that this has gone on for about ten years and so many people have been unwilling to say no more. If I allowed my husband to treat people the way men in these circles treat women, I do believe I would be partially to blame for it. As his wife I have a responsibility to call him to repentance and admonish him if I see him sinning. He does the same thing for me. Am I technically responsible for his sin? No. It is his sin and mine is mine. But I would be a terrible sister in Christ to him if I didn’t say something when he was going the wrong direction.
This is not an isolated incident where a man made one mistake. This is an unhealthy system that destroys lives. And that is why I’m angry. Righteous anger is not wrong. Jesus himself got angry. And I have a ton of mercy and love for the people whose lives have been destroyed by all this over the years. I didn’t write this post off the top of my head after reading something on Facebook. I’ve been battling this for years, hoping to see women (and men freed) from it.
I’m tired of getting letters and reading blogs of women who have been so damaged by the application of these teachings they can’t even darken the door of a church or have completely turned their back on Christ. It makes me sick when I read what they have experienced.
This goes way beyond Doug being unfaithful to his wife. I’m angry that this whole system has continued to exist for this long and lives are being destroyed by it even as we speak. And if Jesus was sitting right here beside me in the flesh, I’d write the same thing all over again. Why? Because I am confident this destruction of lives makes Him angry too.
Sue,
Thank you for sharing your story. It is one I have heard and read about too many times. I’m so glad your family was reconciled with your son, but I can imagine how difficult those four years were.
Like you, I am very concerned for the woman/girl. If she is an integral part of the VF world… It is going to be very difficult for her. Truthfully I hope it is someone not connected in any way with VF as she would probably stand a better chance of putting her life back together in some normal way. But I don’t think this is the case.
Keri,
I do believe that much of this comes from a desire to do it “right” for our kids. That was what drew us to it initially. Fear drives a great deal of it too. Fear was a motivator for us as well.
But when you start peeling back the layers of the system and look at the totality of Scripture… There are serious problems with the teachings.
Laura,
When I discussed the wife being responsible to a certain degree, I knew that there would be some pushback on that. And I’m fine with it.
Again, I’m looking at the totality of the situation. This is not just about one event – a lengthy inappropriate relationship. This goes far beyond it. This is about a system that exploits women.
And we are responsible to respond to the sin we see around us.
If a woman knows her husband is abusing the children, she has a moral obligation to say something and do something to stop it. If a woman knows her husband is cheating in his business, she has a moral obligation to try to persuade him to stop. If a woman knows her husband is stealing from a friend, she has an obligation to confront him. A wife has an obligation to look out for her husband’s best interest and that includes counseling him as a sister in Christ when he is wrong. (She also has a legal responsibility in some cases.)
If a wife looks the other way when she sees her husband doing wrong, she is wrong. And, yes, I think it does make her an accomplice to the situation.
And if she is so destroyed by the system she is in that she can’t even take a stand against the wrongdoings, then there is an even bigger problem.