If you didn’t see the news over the weekend, Doug Phillips of Vision Forum confessed to an inappropriate relationship with a woman not his wife. If you aren’t familiar with all this, just do a search and you’ll find plenty of reaction.
Way back in 2006 I took a public stand against Doug Phillips and Vision Forum. Coming out against VF was not a popular move. At the time I had a well-read blog. But when I said that there were some serious problems with Vision Forum and the teachings coming out of there, my numbers took a hit. I’ve never regretted taking that stand and I’d do it again in heartbeat.
Doug Phillips is no stranger to controversy or accusations that he is heavy handed in the way he deals with people he believes to be his enemy. For some truly stunning examples, see this lengthy explanation on the Well-Trained Mind forum or Jens Gems. If you want to read more, Karen has done so much to expose the problems with patriarchy, Vision Forum, etc. She has also started a new series on this.
So who is to blame for Doug Phillips’ resignation and the current mess? How could this have been avoided?
Obviously Doug himself is partially to blame. That’s obvious and I’m not going to spend my time there. Others have analyzed him to death this weekend. I’m moving on from that.
But where else does the blame fall?
Way back when all of the controversy around the Epsteins was going on, David and I were involved in some discussions online. We have NEVER forgotten one of them and we still refer to it almost seven years later. In the midst of the discussion where the ideas of DP and VF were taking a beating at the hand of those of us actually trying to think logically and based on Scripture, a man said, “We need Doug Phillips to speak about this.” Spunky of Spunky Homeschool was also involved in the discussion. She jumped in and said, “No, we don’t need to hear from Doug Phillips so we know what to think. We need to be Bereans and study this for ourselves.”
BINGO.
A good portion of the blame for this situation goes to every follower of Doug Phillips and Vision Forum who never took the time to be a Berean. Who took in what DP said hook, line and sinker. Who got sucked in by the gorgeous catalog and the swanky conferences. Who looked to Doug Phillips and his message of the perfect family instead of Jesus Christ and His message of grace, repentance, and forgiveness. The average VF customer who was not a Berean is partially to blame. The only reason VF and DP have the influence they do today is because people kept giving them the dollars.
Some of the blame goes to the men around him who chose to fear Doug rather than fear God. Unless the men around him are so spiritually and emotionally bankrupt that they truly cannot tell right from wrong, they HAD to have known that the way DP and VF did business was not right. There are too many stories of ruined lives to explain them ALL away as being the problem of the other people. Did DP deal with some difficult people? I’m sure he did. And I’m sure that at least a few times he was probably in the right. But this many times? No way. And so the men who surround him, work with him, speak with him, etc. are to blame for this situation as well. Perhaps if they had tried to check him at some point, this would not have happened.
I also put some of the blame on conservative evangelical leaders who did not call him out or distance themselves from him. My personal theory is that most of them are unwilling to do so because they don’t want to rock the boat. They don’t want to be on anyone’s bad side because that can mean fewer speaking opportunities, fewer book endorsements, and so on. Burning bridges isn’t wise if you have or desire a national platform. And so they looked the other way.
I also think some of the conservative evangelical leaders did not call out DP and VF because the rally around complementarianism has been so strong the past couple of years that they are unwilling to undermine anyone who is in their big tent of complementarianism. Did they think DP was a bit extreme? Probably. But their dislike of egalitarianism is so strong that they are willing to look the other way even when one of their own is a bit nutty in what he’s promoting. As long as he’s not an egalitarian, they’re going to just pretend everything is okay.
Which brings me to the women.
Are the women to blame?
Which women are to blame?
Are the women to blame? It is hard for me to say yes, but yes. They must shoulder at least a small portion of the responsibility for this situation.
His wife is in some small ways responsible. She made the choice along the way to go along with his teachings. She made the choice to either look the other way or participate in the unChristlike way he treated others. She had a choice to look at Jesus or at her husband. She enabled him.
The woman he became involved with is partially to blame. She made the choice to respond to his advances (or she made the advances herself). She made the choice to continue to put herself in the situation where this unfaithfulness took place. Even if Phillips is her superior (employer, elder, etc.), she still had a choice. She had a choice to look at Jesus or look at Phillips.
But wait! Sallie, how can you say that? How can you blame the women? They didn’t have a choice. They are so indoctrinated that they don’t even know they have a choice to stand up to him or reject him.
BINGO.
And with that you have proved my point.
This entire system is toxic to women. Poison. Horrible. Oppressive. Wrong. Unbiblical. Evil.
Do you want more words?
Filthy. Destructive. Wasteful. Disgusting.
Do you want me to put them in all caps so I’m shouting?
Yes.
THE ENTIRE SYSTEM IS TOXIC. HORRIBLE. OPPRESSIVE. WRONG. UNBIBLICAL. EVIL.
Either the women are to blame or they are victims of a terrible situation.
Make a choice.
Either the women around him are partially to blame or they are victims of an incredibly unhealthy cultic theological system.
If you didn’t read it, go back and read that comment in the Well-Trained Mind forum. It is sickening. Disgusting. Vile. Horrific. How can anyone think that Jesus would treat women this way? These are not the ramblings of someone not in the know. These are well-established facts that have been public knowledge for a long time.
This is a system that destroys women. That denies them the very basics of personhood. It is a system that treats women like total dirt. Jesus would NEVER treat women like this. NEVER EVER.
You can’t have it both ways. Either the women are to blame or they are being spiritually abused inside a horrible, evil, disgusting cultic system.
And if I sound angry, it is because I am.
How many families have been destroyed in the past seven years because no one was willing to stand up to this man? How many young woman are still stuck at home with no life and no future because their parents listened to this man?
Other people spent the weekend expressing sympathy for his wife and family. Fine. Feel sorry for them. But right now I’m feeling angry and sorry for all the lives that were destroyed because this garbage spread year after year.
Think about how his children will suffer for this all you want. Fine. I’m sorry for his kids, too.
But I’m even more sorry for all the young women (and men) who were shamed and vilified because they had an interest in someone of the opposite sex while the man promoting the shaming was apparently doing the same thing and still out there preaching against it.
Yes, I’m angry. I’m angry for every person who was turned off to Christ and Christianity because this garbage was forced down their throat.
Yes, I’m angry. I’m angry for every parent who provoked their children to such despair and anger with these teachings that they felt they had no choice but to flee their own family so they could have a life.
Yes, I’m angry. And if you’ve been paying attention, you should be angry too. This kind of stuff is horrible for what it does to people and their view of Jesus Christ and Christianity.
It sickens me when I read blogs written by women who escaped this garbage and now are atheists. It sickens me that this is their view of Jesus.
Jesus loved women. Women loved Jesus.
And it sickens me that people will still call VF today and order more of this garbage and destroy more lives.
Hi Jena,
LOL! No, I’m not a professional in the area of cults. (My husband loved your term for it!)
But I am very passionate about the plight of women in the body of Christ and spiritual abuse. I write here as I’m able because I care deeply that women (and men) know the grace, love and forgiveness of Jesus.
Retha,
Yes, my opinion of VF would be even more strongly against them now. I only knew a fraction in 2006. The ensuing years of study and observation have just more firmly confirmed to me that much of what they promote is wrong and dangerous.
One thing that I find sobering about Vision Forum and many other like-minded groups is that they diligently search the scriptures to find the “right” way, but…. Jesus said the same thing about the Pharisees. “You search diligently the Scriptures to find eternal life, yet these are the scriptures that talk about Me”, and the Pharisees were furious. One can set up all these systems and do it all in the name of Scripture, yet miss the whole point. That’s scary.
The Pharisees had all these rules and ways of doing things and complained that Jesus’ and John’s disciples didn’t follow them, nor were they concerned with mercy and compassion. Like when Jesus healed the lame on the Sabbath, the Pharisees response was to bad mouth Jesus, calling what he did as demonic, and then plotting to kill him!
The Gospel has chilling warnings for us about making sure our focus is on Jesus and not religious systems made by men who are all about appearances but inwardly are not close to God at all.
David,
it is interesting you brought up the Pharisees. (Excellent comment, BTW.) I came across this post shortly after you wrote that. Good food for thought.
Don’t Be A Modern Day Pharisee
http://www.churchleaders.com/pastors/pastor-articles/145958-jesus-manifesto-avoid-modern-day-pharisaism.html
Thank you for that. This is really eye-opening for me! I’ve bought from VF before (Jonathan Park stuff I think) but really had NO idea what this company/movement was about. At all. I kind of just assumed it was probably a decent, Christian company that sold mostly Christian books. I’ve honestly never thought about DP. Makes me feel a little guilty for blindly buying from a company I guess. I assumed it was a smaller, more specialized CBD type company. I didn’t realize it was an entire movement. Being in the h’school community I definitely see things that I don’t feel comfortable with for our family and I never really had a name for it. Although, maybe not as strongly around here as in other areas. Very interesting and I’m going to be poking around on your blog to gain some more understanding. Thank you.
Thank you for this analysis. You have gone to the heart of something I have been trying to get straight in my own mind over the past few days
Bingo , indeed!
I fully anticipated the fall of Doug Phillips to thoroughly gratify feminists. What Doug taught and stood for remains biblical and feminism will continue to reflect a rebellious spirit. Doug may have made mistakes but he is the only courageous man amongst many wimps to speak for Biblical truth which will scarcely amuse liberals.
Janet,
Thank you for your comment. I do not find Doug Phillips’ fall gratifying. I find it profoundly sad that another Christian leader has given the world yet another reason to doubt what we say. And I’m very sad for the people who put him on a pedestal and thought of him as next-to-the-second-coming of Jesus. I’m very sorry for the children and young adults who are having to learn why we don’t put ordinary people on pedestals and their parents who have to figure out a way to explain it to them. Pedestals never work out. Ever.
I am thankful that this situation is making people really look at what he teaches and the extreme views he has regarding the function of women in the home, church and culture. I honestly think most people who send him money either as donations or through purchases really don’t understand what they are supporting.
And if a feminist is someone who believes that women have equal value and standing before God… Then I will happily identify myself as a feminist. I won’t be distracted or dissuaded by people who throw out phrases like “rebellious spirit” because they just don’t work.
And, frankly, I can think of many men I consider more courageous than Doug Phillips. Saying men are wimps and liberal if they aren’t like him isn’t convincing either.
That ship sailed a long time ago.
This is the BEST ARTICLE ON THE TOPIC I’VE READ. And my God, that description of how he behaved when Beaull had their last child..my God. Lord help the people that disgusting man hurt.
This unfortunate sin that Mr. Phillips has confessed of is terrible, indeed! However, instead of driving us to anger and resentment toward him or others, it should rather show us that none of us are above temptation.
If you are human than you are just as fallen and sinful as Mr. Phillips is.
Luke 15:7
“Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.”
It’s CLEAR that Doug has sinned greatly, but it is also clear that he has repented and is forgiven by our merciful Lord that has likewise forgiven us. What is to be gained by analyzing someone else’s sin?
Matthew 5:22
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
This is NOT our place to publicly analyze someones sin. Sin is sin. Weather you have stolen, told a lie, or sinned sexually, you have shamed the name of Christ and are in need of forgiveness.
Its fine to not “agree” 100% with ones beliefs, but don’t break them down and see them as being too far gone. I myself do not agree 100% with Doug Phillips, however that should not stop me from praying for him and forgiving him.
Should we not say as the apostle Paul said? “I am the least of all the saints”
For truly we are the least of all, but by God’s perfect mercy and forgiveness we can love, and forgive those that might wrong us.
Please consider all that I have listed here, and may our Lord bless you.
Hi Lewis,
Thank you for your thoughtful comment. I am in complete agreement with you that none of us are above making the same mistake Doug did. I once had someone tell me they could never do that (commit adultery) and my thought was that if you think you couldn’t do it, you’re already half way there. We all need to be on our guard regarding sin of all kinds.
I do disagree with you about the public nature of the discussion. Doug is a public person by choice. He has spent years promoting himself, his family, his business and his beliefs in a very public way. That was his choice. He has held himself up as an example of what every man should be and his marriage and family as what everyone else should do. He has been scathing in his remarks at times regarding those who disagree with him. He believes it is his way or the highway more than perhaps any other man out there speaking to Christians and homeschoolers. Any other teacher I can think of will offer qualifiers and acknowledge that other Christians may come to different conclusions. Not Doug. The very nature of what he has done and how he has put himself up there opens him up to analysis.
However, this post is not just about his mistake. This post is about the entire system he promotes. I do believe it is destructive and have believed that for many years. And so I find it troubling in the extreme that people are defending him who have never acquainted themselves with what he really teaches or promotes. I sincerely hope that people who took the links I have here are considering the truth and digging deeper online. I don’t want to see any more families destroyed by what he teaches. He has held up an ideal that no one could possibly keep, including him. That should give us all pause for thought.
Janet – I made a thorough study of Doug Phillips’ “Tenets of Biblical patriarchy – and what he say is not biblical.
http://tenetsofbiblicalpatriarchy.blogspot.com/
In fact, I have measured all of it against the Bible, and given the entire set of Tenets a score of being 36% Biblical – the majority of messages are either one of several ways to understand a text, Biblical half truths spoken without the other half, things that never appear in the Bible, or even a few things which contradict the Bible.
Even those things that are Biblical are not on the central themes of Christianity – Jesus, salvation, mercy, God changing us from the inside, loving others as ourselves…
If you want to argue that Phillips is Biblical, come to my blog, and comment on where I go wrong and what verse actually support the interpretation Doug & co. gives in these tenets.
I increasingly worry if believers or at least those presumed to be Christians expend so much energy in indulging in gossip and slander. Nothing likens us more to the Devil than when we invest so much energy in spitting poisonous words to brethren. I do not believe that anyone deserves such attacks. I am certain that Doug Phillips will reach out to those that he believes have been so much hurt by his actions. I feel sorry for those that are gloating in the malicious articles. The impact is so huge that it will never be possible to take back your word should the Holy Spirit convict you of the guilt of slander.
Repentance is not intended to satisfy theological and philosophical curiosity of “Athens”. God is not impressed with our verbal dexterity as in the contrition of the heart of the subject repentant. None of us have any right to prescribe what genuine repentance is and to chart a way forward for Doug. Doug is very clear as to who he is accountable to and whom he has hurt. One thing we should never do is to judge other people’s motives. Scriptures are emphatic about human limitations in judging motives or indeed anything that is unseen. When we judge we usurp the authority of God to judge all mankind. For those that feel the temptation to add more dosage of venom, take a little time to reflect on the Scripture; Do not Judge and you will not be judged!! As such, no one is competent, whether an insider or otherwise, to judge Doug Phillips’ motive other than his maker. If anything I seem to find it much easier to decipher the motives of his sworn enemies whose dark and rebellious articles and anthems are now evident even across the border. By the way in case you are wondering about my identity. I am certainly not American; I really wish I was! I have no paid Association with Vision Forum other than my sheer admiration of the Ministry and its allied associates. I have learnt so much from Vision Forum. For once it has been refreshing to hear Men of God candidly speak out about truth that has been compromised so much by the forces of liberalism and its familiar accomplices. If Vision Forum is distasteful to the USA, it is certainly a very welcome Ministry to Christians outside the USA. Militant and pervasive feminism is certainly a major headwind to the healthy spiritual growth of the Church. I know very few in the western world who would have the courage to say this. Feminism, bent on destroying family and the Church, has succeeded to cower so many churches and the devoted men of God. If the subject of patriarchy is so objectionable to you, apply your energy to things that are perhaps more important to you. You do not have to share your anger with everyone. Doug has sinned. He has acknowledged it. No one has a right to tell him what to do and certainly not you. You have so much in your own life that needs to be put straight and the earlier you realize this the better. Focus on the log in your eyes and Doug will be available to deal with the speck in his own eyes. For the sworn enemies, take the time to reflect. Is that all that you want to be remembered for in this life, that you were so schooled in the art of gossip that Men of God licked their wounds inflicted by your vilely diction. Do you really want to leave a legacy as someone who sought gratification in hating and embarrassing the men of God. Which Scripture can you honestly reconcile yourself to. Remember, the worst of God’s men are doing some good and the owner is pleased with them and does not expect you to judge someone else’s servant.
Thank you for your comment from Africa.
You wrote:
No, that is not what I will be remembered for. I will be remembered for speaking and advocating on behalf of those who are hurt by men who claim to love God. Women, children, young people, and, yes, even men who have been ruined by the experiences they have had.
I will leave a legacy as someone who sought to bring women to freedom in Christ.
That they will know the truth of how much Jesus loves them as women.
That they will know the truth of how well Jesus treated women while He was on earth.
They will know the truth that Jesus set women free to be the first to tell of the resurrection, sending them to the Apostles with the good news.
That they will know the truth of how Jesus encouraged women to sit at His feet and learn from Him as a rabbi, something women were never encouraged to do that time.
That they will know the truth that Jesus accepted financial support from women who had money of their own.
That they will know the truth that a woman was the first documented convert in Europe and her home apparently was the first gathering of the church in Europe.
This is the Jesus I want women to meet. A Jesus who turned things upside down and gave women freedom and dignity. Not the oppressive teachings of DP and VF that make women unable to think for themselves and believe they cannot even approach their Lord and Savior with joy and confidence without speaking to a man first.
The view of woman peddled by VF and DP is not the view that Jesus gives us in the NT.
And, yes, there is a place to expose false teachings and even be angry in a way that is not sin.
Galatians 5:11-13 (NIV)
But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished. I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate themselves. For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.…
Matthew 12:33-35 (NIV)
“Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit. You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart. The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure what is evil.…
Matthew 21:12-13 (NIV)
And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves. And He said to them, “It is written, ‘MY HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED A HOUSE OF PRAYER’; but you are making it a ROBBERS’ DEN.”…
Mark 9:42 (NIV)
Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe to stumble, it would be better for him if, with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he had been cast into the sea.
It is a serious business to get between Jesus and his children. It is serious business to encourage people to look to man instead of Jesus. We should be angry. And I would suggest anyone who isn’t angry about what has been happening to so many families who are associated with VF and DP hasn’t really talked to people to understand the devastation in their lives. Hasn’t read what they really teach. Hasn’t researched what happens to families who associate long-term with this group.
I pray that God will open your eyes to the freedom God gives to women, how much He loves them, and the wonderful purposes He has for each of His dear daughters whom He loves so thoroughly and tenderly.
Romans 8:1-2 (NIV)
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.…
Bravo, Sallie. Keep doing what you’re doing! Great response above, too!
Speaking as one of those women who turned away from Christianity Proper years ago, I want to suggest that for myself, and many women like me, Jesus was never the problem. Our issues are with the men and women who insist on our social, economic and spiritual inferiority.
Sallie, I truly understand your anger, but I wanted to give you this smidgeon of hope…you would be surprised how much the teachings of Christ continue to inform and guide our lives. We are just done with the insults, limitations, gossip and double standards. Unchurched we may be, but our commitments to our 35 year marriages, to family, to community, to loving our neighbor, to good labor and right conduct are all rooted in the faith of our childhood.. We may not “walk the walk” anymore, but the foundation remains, and we know Jesus is not the problem.
Who knows? Maybe women like you can bridge the chasm…LEADING the way. I personally am not optimistic…for every Sallie that lifts women up, there are ten that will come up with new and creative reasons why women exist solely to serve the desires of men. But that is just me.
Maybe not so much for other women who have walked away.
Thank you for this post.
Sallie…can you edit? Fix the second sentence?
Done!
And thank you for your comment. I’ll respond more later. 🙂
Sallie, thank you so much for your VERY righteous anger over this issue. You have expressed it beautifully.
Like Anne Hunt, I am a born-again Christian who no longer attends church. I could write for hours about the spiritual abuse I experienced, especially because I am divorced and a single mom. But I still love the Lord with all my heart.
I found the blog “Love, Joy, Feminism” a few months ago and started learning about this patriarchy/quiverfull/dominionist culture. Good grief, these people make my former churches look liberal! I am so glad there are bloggers like you and Libby Anne speaking up for those of us who were so mistreated in these churches.
My heart breaks for all the women and children trapped in this terrible lifestyle. I pray, too, that they also become Bereans and start questioning everything. Please keep writing about this. The mainstream media hasn’t caught on yet; maybe they never will. But maybe someday, a wife or daughter will get the opportunity to spend a few minutes surfing, and find your blog, and get the courage to escape.
Hi Ann and TLC,
I apologize it has taken me so long to respond to your comments.
Thank you for the words of encouragement. I often wonder if what I’m doing here really makes a difference. I don’t have the freedom to invest as much time here as I would like so I feel like I never really get into a flow. But I do want to speak out and encourage women who have been hurt or who are bewildered by what they see happening around them. And every once in awhile I receive a note from someone who says that what I wrote was exactly what she needed and so I continue on as I’m able.
I truly don’t think most Christians fully grasp the gravity of what is developing in churches as it relates to women. I’ve been working on a post about how I believe we are already seeing conservative complementarians and patriarchalists doubling down even more aggressively in their beliefs. I think the divisions we’ve seen so far regarding women in the church will seem minor compared to what is ahead.
I know a number of wonderful believers who have left the institutional church for a variety of reasons. People like yourself who love Jesus but could no longer handle dealing with the church as it currently exists. I do think we will see a continued exodus which I’ll also explain in that post.
I should probably just go finish it! LOL!
Thank you again for your kind comments. Please stop by often and share your thoughts. 🙂
Yes, please finish that post, Sallie. I appreciate your writing.
The flesh was weak? Let me tell you something, I could care less if he waltzed in front of her buck naked or her doing the same, regardless if your a Christian or and Atheist, one word comes to mind, you may have heard of it , its called NO
The flesh was weak? Let me tell you something, I could care less if he waltzed in front of her buck naked or her doing the same, regardless if your a Christian or and Atheist, one word comes to mind, you may have heard of it , its called NO
Hi Bobby,
Thank you for your comment. I’m not sure what your “flesh is weak” comment was referring to. Another comment? But anyway, I agree. If she danced naked in front of him and threw herself on the bed, he still should have said no and walked out of the room.
However, it is just as possible that she is so brainwashed by her time in VF and with DP that she had no idea how to withstand his advances. She may have fancied herself in love with him, believing that he would leave his wife for her. How many women involved in affairs continue on for years because they believe this very thing? We’re talking about a man who apparently has a fair amount of charisma in person. Look at how people followed him and went out of their way to be a part of his world. So we have a young woman who has been taught since she was tiny that she is always to obey and submit to men, especially “godly” leaders. I can see how she would get sucked into the situation. Her conscience was seared by the constant teaching she was exposed to. That is what a cult does to you.
I am floored and deeply offended by this post. I agree with the poster who said it was full of venom and slander. I didn’t read in any grace and compassion. The sins in this article are just as dangerous as the ones DP has committed. It is thinly veiled as a defense for those hurt by patriarchy. What about all of those whose lives have been enriched by patriarchy under the guidance of Christ? Where is the truth behind this?
I do agree that no one should look to a man above God. Duh. Even Doug Phillips preached that! But we are to honor his Hod given order. We will continue to buy from Vision Forum. We will continue to draw wisdom from others, while making sure it’s biblically sound. We don’t buy materials because any one man or ministry heads something. We do it because the materials are good and helpful to our families.