As I’ve been preparing to republish a large archive of posts about women in the body of Christ this week, I came across one that is a collection of quotes about women from Christian leaders throughout history. Some go back to what we call the early church fathers. Others are from this century. And then there is everything in-between.
Here’s a recent one that was provided as a statement made in a Christian conference in the twenty-first century.
You would not let an eleven-year-old child stand up in a meeting and talk. Then why should you allow a woman to speak in a meeting?
Wouldn’t you love to be married to that man or be his daughter?
The full quote from which I took the post title is this.
On this account all women are born, that they may acknowledge themselves inferior in consequence of the superiority of the male sex.
The source is John Calvin’s Commentary on Corinthians. You can search it up for yourself.
I expect many Christians would react by claiming no one talks like that today. Even the most conservative men wouldn’t use terms like inferior and superior when referring to men and women in the body of Christ and marriage.
Are you sure?
Go to this video. I’m not embedding it and I’m not even willing to link to it directly. You’ll have to close the spaces I put in the link below. But there is a growing segment of Reformed and Calvinistic men who believe and teach that this type of language about women is both necessary and biblical.
https://youtu.be/ 4Tn2aRfRPWk
Spoiler alert. It’s the same pastor who tells his wife what she can read and his children when they should go to the bathroom. See my post Vision Forum 2.0 and Patriocentricity Again | Joel Webbon on Women. Is he a household name? No. But he has a growing following on social media and it’s clear he definitely aspires to being one of the main leaders in Reformed circles as the older leaders retire and die off.
Church Traditions and The Calf Path
So, does “submission” play into this “inferior & superior” complex? Joe Webbon talks about equality yet talks about women being inferior to men. Then says there are people that are better than you? I hardly think that is what God had in mind! Ugghh, not an enjoyable message. A message that sends the wrong message!
Hi Kris,
I haven’t completely figured out Joel Webbon. There’s something I’m missing about him and I’m waiting for the lightbulb to go on. I have wondered if he’s controlled opposition, deliberately there to cause division in the body of Christ. He came out of nowhere and is now everywhere (in that corner of the world).
My thought is that he thinks he’s being clever in the way that he talks about equality, submission, etc. But I was surprised when he went with the superior and inferior labels. I shouldn’t have been because this group of Reformed and Calvinistic men want women removed from the public sphere. But they are not consistent with that either.
Apparently Webbon put out quite a bit of money ($10k?) to get a ten minute promo/interview with Allie Beth Stuckey a while back. She did a short segment about it in which she said she really didn’t want to do it but apparently had to do it contractually. Recently Webbon said that she shouldn’t be operating in the public sphere. So Webbon will use Stuckey to get to her audience to grow his reach, but then turn around and discuss that women shouldn’t be defending the Christian faith in the public sphere. (I don’t have bookmarks, but if anyone finds them please leave them in a comment.)
This is why I constantly hammer this point home. The people who push complementarianism and patriarchy are NOT consistent. And when they try to be consistent, they end up with bizarre and arbitrary standards.
Sallie
When I listen to Joel Webbon I hear twisting scripture and then using arbritrary terms and phrases to get his point across. And people cheer it on and happens frequently. I find that an inappropriate use of scripture. Just something that I picked up. This is what I see that pastors use certain “Christianese” termonology that has been used forever to get the scriptural point across.
Don’t know this, but he may realize he is getting popular and trying to make a name for himself. If he went on Allie Beth Stuckey and she didn’t have much choice contractually, is telling.
Thank you Sallie for addressing such a thorny issue.
You’re welcome!
Sallie
In a bit of hilarity, one of the theobros pushing nonsense like this, got caught posting supposedly on one of his alt accounts before he realized he hadn’t switched accounts, so he posted about submitting and all this, but it was on his (the man’s account) but was posted as if he was the wife.
It was hilarious to read, and he couldn’t figure out how to backtrack that one.
Oh, I missed that! Who was it?
The theobros are obsessed with women submitting and male authority. And I do mean obsessed.
Here’s the tweet with the screen shot: https://x.com/JoelWBerry/status/1899657838076760202
Okay, I always attempt to make the most charitable reading of a situation because I want someone to give me the benefit of the doubt if I make a mistake.
But I’m not sure I’m buying his explanation. I watched his brief video in which he explained himself. I’m not a body language expert by any stretch, but he sure was blinking a lot.
Now that I’m thinking about it, it would not surprise me AT ALL if these guys all have multiple burner accounts where they play the roles of submissive women and younger male sycophants I mean acolytes. It’s just so weird to think about people going out of their way to do that. That would be like me making up several different accounts to leave comments here to reinforce my message and tell everyone how great Sallie is. That’s just so bizarre it doesn’t even cross my mind. But there is something off with some of these guys. That is very clear.
Someone in the comments said this:
Now that I think is accurate. It also ties in with Webbon constantly making CensorTube videos that seem to be designed to be clickbaity. He did a LOT of videos over a year ago about the Nephilim and all the other unusual topics being heavily discussed online. I have no problem with that in general since they have been hot topics for some time. But in his case, it seems like it was more about growing his channel as much as possible with viral content rather than a genuine interest in the topics. I can’t know his motives, but I struggle to find them noble in his case. His restrained, methodical, “gentle” way of speaking feels highly contrived and dishonest to me. Maybe others perceive it differently. I simply don’t trust him.