Although we are led to believe that the Bible is full to the brim with passages supporting the hierarchtical/patriarchal/complementarian view, in reality it primarily hinges on one passage.
In 1 Timothy 2:11-15 we read:
A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint. (BSB)
Even a cursory reading of this passage clearly shows that it is not a simple passage.
Jon Zens looks in-depth at this passage in his book What’s With Paul and Women? Unlocking the Cultural Background to 1 Timothy 2. In particular, Zens looks at the cultural context. I’d like to share a few thought-provoking quotes from Chapter 1.
Entitled “How the New Testament Views Women,” the chapter gives example after example of how women were viewed, acted, and participated in church life in the New Testament.
Here is a sampling.
Neither the Gospel narratives nor the recorded words of Jesus ever put restrictions on the ministry of women. (page 27)
A woman’s testimony was disallowed as evidence in first century courts. Yet the Lord chose females to be the first witnesses and lead the proclamation of his resurrection. (page 28)
In Revelation 2:20-24 Christ rebuked the Thyatiran congregation for allowing a false prophetess, nicknamed ‘Jezebel,’ to ‘teach’ some of the Lord’s servants to sin grievously. If it was such a crime for a woman to teach the brethren, why didn’t the Lord just condemn the assembly for even allowing a woman to instruct others? This incident in Thyatira implies that the assembly permitted other male and female prophets to teach the truth. Christ’s objection was not that a woman taught, but that what she taught was false teaching. (pages 31-32)
Have you ever thought about the fact that we have in the New Testament more glimpses into the service of women in the Kingdom than we do concerning most of the twelve apostles? (page 32)
There is much more in this book. Highly recommended if you are starting to work through your beliefs on this topic. This is a good place to start.
This sounds like a book I should read. Although I was not raised going to church much, I find as I learn more I have very strong Baptist ,Catholic ,(and living only an hour down the road from cereal city) Seventh Day Adventists b
eliefs..All from probably 2 years tops church attendance spread over 12 years. So I try to focus only on the bible and what it says. I have thought that something was going on in culture at the time for Paul to speak so strongly, but think it must be relevent for all time too. I do not know anything about this patriarchal movement which seems to have upset a lot of people , I mostly run into women my own age(50’s) who constantly put men down and act as though by being women they are superior in all ways. That is highly annoying also.Must be patriarchy is the flip side of that. You will make me think.Karen
This sounds like a book I should read. Although I was not raised going to church much, I find as I learn more I have very strong Baptist ,Catholic ,(and living only an hour down the road from cereal city) Seventh Day Adventists b
eliefs..All from probably 2 years tops church attendance spread over 12 years. So I try to focus only on the bible and what it says. I have thought that something was going on in culture at the time for Paul to speak so strongly, but think it must be relevent for all time too. I do not know anything about this patriarchal movement which seems to have upset a lot of people , I mostly run into women my own age(50’s) who constantly put men down and act as though by being women they are superior in all ways. That is highly annoying also.Must be patriarchy is the flip side of that. You will make me think.Karen
This sounds like a book I should read. Although I was not raised going to church much, I find as I learn more I have very strong Baptist ,Catholic ,(and living only an hour down the road from cereal city) Seventh Day Adventists b
eliefs..All from probably 2 years tops church attendance spread over 12 years. So I try to focus only on the bible and what it says. I have thought that something was going on in culture at the time for Paul to speak so strongly, but think it must be relevent for all time too. I do not know anything about this patriarchal movement which seems to have upset a lot of people , I mostly run into women my own age(50’s) who constantly put men down and act as though by being women they are superior in all ways. That is highly annoying also.Must be patriarchy is the flip side of that. You will make me think.Karen
This sounds like a book I should read. Although I was not raised going to church much, I find as I learn more I have very strong Baptist ,Catholic ,(and living only an hour down the road from cereal city) Seventh Day Adventists b
eliefs..All from probably 2 years tops church attendance spread over 12 years. So I try to focus only on the bible and what it says. I have thought that something was going on in culture at the time for Paul to speak so strongly, but think it must be relevent for all time too. I do not know anything about this patriarchal movement which seems to have upset a lot of people , I mostly run into women my own age(50’s) who constantly put men down and act as though by being women they are superior in all ways. That is highly annoying also.Must be patriarchy is the flip side of that. You will make me think.Karen
I’ve been thinking some about the seasons of a woman’s life, and it seems to me that the Bible is very pragmatic about the physical limitations that pregnancy and small children placed on women, in a day before automobiles, and before contraception and infant formula. (Our culture has in many ways barely started to adapt to our technologies.)
I’ve been thinking some about the seasons of a woman’s life, and it seems to me that the Bible is very pragmatic about the physical limitations that pregnancy and small children placed on women, in a day before automobiles, and before contraception and infant formula. (Our culture has in many ways barely started to adapt to our technologies.)
I’ve been thinking some about the seasons of a woman’s life, and it seems to me that the Bible is very pragmatic about the physical limitations that pregnancy and small children placed on women, in a day before automobiles, and before contraception and infant formula. (Our culture has in many ways barely started to adapt to our technologies.)
I’ve been thinking some about the seasons of a woman’s life, and it seems to me that the Bible is very pragmatic about the physical limitations that pregnancy and small children placed on women, in a day before automobiles, and before contraception and infant formula. (Our culture has in many ways barely started to adapt to our technologies.)
Peggy –
You raise a good point that reminds me of a good way to test whether the teaching of something about women is heavily influenced by our culture.
So many of the ideas coming out about women from heavily patriarchal/complementary groups really can only be practiced by moderately well off to very well off middle class families in the West. Much of their teaching does not transcend cultures. If it doesn’t transcend cultures and time, then we have to be very careful to make it a requirement of Christians. That is why saying a Christian woman has to stay home full time and homeschool her children doesn’t fly. It doesn’t work across all times and cultures.
I can’t remember where I read it, but there was a discussion about the church in China and the fact that many women lead in churches over there. They have to. They wouldn’t even understand our discussions here about whether or not women can do x, y and z. It would make no cultural sense to them.
Peggy –
You raise a good point that reminds me of a good way to test whether the teaching of something about women is heavily influenced by our culture.
So many of the ideas coming out about women from heavily patriarchal/complementary groups really can only be practiced by moderately well off to very well off middle class families in the West. Much of their teaching does not transcend cultures. If it doesn’t transcend cultures and time, then we have to be very careful to make it a requirement of Christians. That is why saying a Christian woman has to stay home full time and homeschool her children doesn’t fly. It doesn’t work across all times and cultures.
I can’t remember where I read it, but there was a discussion about the church in China and the fact that many women lead in churches over there. They have to. They wouldn’t even understand our discussions here about whether or not women can do x, y and z. It would make no cultural sense to them.
Peggy –
You raise a good point that reminds me of a good way to test whether the teaching of something about women is heavily influenced by our culture.
So many of the ideas coming out about women from heavily patriarchal/complementary groups really can only be practiced by moderately well off to very well off middle class families in the West. Much of their teaching does not transcend cultures. If it doesn’t transcend cultures and time, then we have to be very careful to make it a requirement of Christians. That is why saying a Christian woman has to stay home full time and homeschool her children doesn’t fly. It doesn’t work across all times and cultures.
I can’t remember where I read it, but there was a discussion about the church in China and the fact that many women lead in churches over there. They have to. They wouldn’t even understand our discussions here about whether or not women can do x, y and z. It would make no cultural sense to them.
Peggy –
You raise a good point that reminds me of a good way to test whether the teaching of something about women is heavily influenced by our culture.
So many of the ideas coming out about women from heavily patriarchal/complementary groups really can only be practiced by moderately well off to very well off middle class families in the West. Much of their teaching does not transcend cultures. If it doesn’t transcend cultures and time, then we have to be very careful to make it a requirement of Christians. That is why saying a Christian woman has to stay home full time and homeschool her children doesn’t fly. It doesn’t work across all times and cultures.
I can’t remember where I read it, but there was a discussion about the church in China and the fact that many women lead in churches over there. They have to. They wouldn’t even understand our discussions here about whether or not women can do x, y and z. It would make no cultural sense to them.
Karen –
Thanks for your comment. I would agree that women putting down men and thinking they are better than them is wrong. That is not the view of biblical equality. Biblical equality means that people in the church function based on their Holy Spirit given gifts, not on their chromosomes.
Karen –
Thanks for your comment. I would agree that women putting down men and thinking they are better than them is wrong. That is not the view of biblical equality. Biblical equality means that people in the church function based on their Holy Spirit given gifts, not on their chromosomes.
Karen –
Thanks for your comment. I would agree that women putting down men and thinking they are better than them is wrong. That is not the view of biblical equality. Biblical equality means that people in the church function based on their Holy Spirit given gifts, not on their chromosomes.
Karen –
Thanks for your comment. I would agree that women putting down men and thinking they are better than them is wrong. That is not the view of biblical equality. Biblical equality means that people in the church function based on their Holy Spirit given gifts, not on their chromosomes.
Sallie, I don’t know if you’re familiar with Christians for Biblical Equality (www.cbeinternational.org), but they have a blog and an extensive catalog of books. I believe they are or were based here in the Twin Cities.
Sallie, I don’t know if you’re familiar with Christians for Biblical Equality (www.cbeinternational.org), but they have a blog and an extensive catalog of books. I believe they are or were based here in the Twin Cities.
Sallie, I don’t know if you’re familiar with Christians for Biblical Equality (www.cbeinternational.org), but they have a blog and an extensive catalog of books. I believe they are or were based here in the Twin Cities.
Sallie, I don’t know if you’re familiar with Christians for Biblical Equality (www.cbeinternational.org), but they have a blog and an extensive catalog of books. I believe they are or were based here in the Twin Cities.
Hi Peggy – Yes, I’m very familiar with CBE. I have links to their site and articles on their site on my Women in the Church Resources page.
Hi Peggy – Yes, I’m very familiar with CBE. I have links to their site and articles on their site on my Women in the Church Resources page.
Hi Peggy – Yes, I’m very familiar with CBE. I have links to their site and articles on their site on my Women in the Church Resources page.
Hi Peggy – Yes, I’m very familiar with CBE. I have links to their site and articles on their site on my Women in the Church Resources page.