I blog about the things I think about. And based on some of my recent entries I’m sure it has been obvious that I’ve been thinking about the role of women in the church. Katy asked me if I would share a bit more about this and so I’m going to.
The Role of Women in the Church
I will admit to doing this with some apprehension. First, I know how passionately people feel about this topic and how it can be such an emotionally charged topic for so many. Second, I really don’t want to get into a huge discussion about this with people who normally don’t read here, but have the role of women as one of their pet issues. And, yes, these people exist and love to go from blog to blog and discussion board to discussion board diving into every jot and tittle about this topic. I’d rather have this be like a discussion over a cup of coffee with the folks who regularly read here, not a free for all with whoever seeks out these topics online. And, third, it is just scary for me to start in on a topic where I do not feel I can answer every question or challenge someone might make. Nobody wants to look stupid, including me. So I hereby reserve the right to use the answer, “I just don’t know.”
The past few days I’ve been thinking about this post and let’s face it. It’s huge. It’s huge in its importance and it’s huge in its scope and magnitude. To even try to do it justice in one lengthy post isn’t even going to happen. So that’s why I put Part 1 in the title. I’m just going to start the ball rolling today and we’ll see where this goes. I have no agenda except to start and see where God leads.
I’ll admit right up front that I don’t have all the answers. I have some convictions, some theories, and lots of questions. But to get started I’ll share a few key points that impact how I view this whole topic.
Women in the Church Doctrine is Complex
First, I don’t care what anyone says — this topic of the role of women in the church is not simple and cut and dried. Anyone who gives pat answers and can explain the proper role of women in a few sentences in which they quote a couple of verses has probably never really studied the issue in depth. People who say they know how all women are supposed to live and can tell you in detail what a woman’s role is and isn’t scare me spitless. I run in the other direction.
Second, a lot of people don’t want to study this issue because it is scary and the implications if they find out they need to change their mind are too overwhelming. And so people just ignore it and hope it will go away or at least not impact them directly. This includes people in church leadership. They say it isn’t important enough and it’s too divisive so they don’t want to go there. But for the women sitting in the pew who are treated like second class citizens and who are unable to use their gifts in the church, it is devastatingly important.
Third, the application of a church’s so-called convictions can be incredibly inconsistent. Many churches say they believe one way but they act differently. It drives me nuts to see how churches try to justify all kinds of behaviors that are just plain wrong.
An Egalitarian Marriage
David and I were discussing this last night (when we should have been asleep) and we agreed that we definitely are egalitarian in how we run our home and interact with each other in our marriage. When we look at the way we live there is just no doubt about it. We serve each other and submit to each other. I can only think of one time in the eleven years we’ve been married when we had a difference of opinion about something major and could not come to an agreement on it. We work very hard to communicate and respect the opinion of the other. We don’t do it perfectly all the time, but we do make it a top priority.
The only way I can think of that David “leads” in the traditional sense of the term is that he usually says grace before we eat. But I bet if I went to him right now and asked if we could take turns he would say yes without even needing to think about it.
So would David and I define ourselves as biblical egalitarians? I’m not sure. What are we? I guess that would be another post. 🙂
Stories of Men Changing Their Mind About Women’s Roles
To close this post, here are two interesting personal stories. The first one, Patriarchy Challenged: One Man’s Story, resonated strongly with David because his experience in marrying me closely paralleled a lot of what this man went through. The second is lengthy, but very good: From Bobbed Hair, Bossy Wives and Women Preachers to Woman Be Free: My Story.
In closing, I thought I would share a good quote from the first link. (Bold mine)
One of the most compelling arguments against gender roles in the life and ministry of the church is simply the experience of seeing God-called women exercise their God-given gifts for the sake of the Gospel and the church. This is an argument from experience, and it compliments the good theology on this subject.
The deepest questions of theology and practice are not answered exclusively by exegesis. We, of course, desire to place the Scriptures in the highest authority and center our beliefs and practices upon them. But there are limitations. John Stackhouse is right when he states that the task of Christian theology is to, “formulate an interpretation that does the best job, relative to the other options, of explaining most of the most important data and as much of the remainder as possible” (Stackhouse, 75). In other words, we don’t have to have a watertight position, just one that is stronger than the alternatives.
If you can accept that I won’t have a watertight position but am looking for the best one I can understand, then I look forward to exploring this topic here.
May God bless you with wisdom from the Holy Spirit as you think through these issues for yourself. 🙂
Sallie,
Just to say I’ve sent you an email with a few thoughts, just in case you check here first.
Nicki 😉
I have edited my previous comment to remove a link and quotes, if anyone is wondering. The unreliability of the source was brought to my attention, something I could have figured out for myself with a little more diligent searching of Google, but did not since I had been reading this topic online for a number of hours and needed to get to bed.
This the perfect example of my hesitancy to post on and discuss this topic – there just aren’t enough hours in the day for me to be thorough in researching and responding to all the different aspects of it. Well, there are enough hours but only if I neglect Caroline, David, my home, my business, and sleep. I had studied this topic in the past when I read some books and discussed it with ministry peers. I haven’t really looked at it much since. And I haven’t delved into it online much and the sheer amount of information online about this topic is overwhelming to me.
Unless someone really feels the need to continue the discussion here, I would prefer to bow out. I left a link to Molly’s site, Adventures in Mercy, where she has done a great job of tackling this and related topics and has done much study and research. There is also a lot of discussion happening over there and I’m quite positive she would also welcome good questions and lively comments.
I hope this doesn’t come across as me avoiding the harder issues related to this topic because that isn’t my desire. I do think this is such an important topic both for the church and for me personally. I know I will continue to study it and read about it today and in the days ahead. However, I am not fully equipped at this point to discuss it in depth and with the knowledge I desire. I am also unwilling to choose a particular view to defend. Because of this, I think it would be the best use of my time if I focus on other topics on AGH rather than going around and around on this one.
One last thought… Last night when we were getting ready for bed (far too late again) David and I were discussing all of this. The lightbulb went on and I finally realized why I have been unable to fully embrace the egalitarian position. It isn’t because I find the complementarian arguments better. It is because the egalitarian position seems too good to be true. The old adage is that if something seems too good to be true, it probably is. For me, the egalitarian view makes sense and brings great freedom. And that makes me suspect because it seems too easy, too simple and too freeing. Of course, this is no reason to not believe it either. The Gospel itself is strikingly simple as is our salvation in many ways. But it was a revelation to me to realize why even though I live as an egalitarian in my marriage, I am unwilling to stand up and be counted as an egalitarian. I continue to suspect that deep down inside I probably am and have been for a long time. And I further suspect that, if really pushed, many more men and women are egalitarians than they are willing to admit.
The other night I was watching Sense and Sensibility. I am always struck by the scene where Marianne is sick and the doctor is doing the bloodletting. Thinking they are helping her, they are making her situation worse. We know that now and marvel at how they could be so wrong. I honestly wonder the same thing about the issues of woman’s roles in the church. Will the church look back someday and wonder – what were they thinking? Will Caroline’s children look back at what I have written and mourn for my lost opportunities? Will the restrictive views of women go the same way as the church’s views on slavery when Christians led the charge to show verse by verse why slavery was not only permitted but expected? I don’t know. Only time will tell.
Brief comments on the excellent disussion:
-Thanks for link to Adventures In Mercy. What a great blog!
-Something that’s confused me from the get-go in this discussion: why is it that people of faith decide that it’s necessary to identify themselves as egalitarian versus complementarian? Why wouldn’t you just choose to attend the church in which women are accorded whatever role you see most fitting, and let it go at that? Actions speak louder than words, so go attend the church that’s most meaningful for you and who cares what other people think. I guess I’m puzzled by the need to martial evidence for either point of view.
-If you conclude by my previous comment that I’m an out-and-out egalitarian, you’d be right. ‘Course if it hadn’t been for this discussion, I wouldn’t have known it! 😉
deidre,
You asked some good questions. The short answers from my perspective are as follows. Other ladies can jump in if they feel I missed something.
Christians feel very passionately about this topic because it has to do with Biblical interpretation and how the Scriptures are handled. For most Christians, especially those of a more conservative bent, this is of paramount importance.
For me personally as a Christian, the Scriptures are my guide to life. I want to live my life in a way that is pleasing to Christ and in accordance with the Word of God. While I can choose any church to attend, I also need to make sure that I am making choices that fit with my theological convictions. I also need to be able to clearly explain to others how my theological views and practical living are in harmony with each other. I don’t want to be a hypocrite.
Christians also feel that the integrity of the church and its teachings are compromised by each of the views (depending on which side of the fence you are on). Some people would feel that complementarianism is an outdated, repressive system that must be changed. Other people would feel that egalitarianism is a threat to the church and that it opens the door to other problematic developments.
I know for a fact that there are women reading this who agreed with everything I said, but would not publicly state so because of the concern over the potential backlash. To call yourself an egalitarian in some conservative Christian circles is paramount to saying that I’m an anti-family, anti-church, anti-Christ, pro-abortion, anti-men, anti-authority radical feminist. Notice I said SOME. Not all Christians would view it that way, but in some circles either you are a good, submissive complementarian wife or you are a feminist hag from the pit of hell. I’m not joking. There is no middle ground in the minds of some Christians.
So that’s my answer. Some may disagree with me and they are welcome to offer their own perspective. But let me assure you that I could have a much more popular blog if I fell in line with the traditional quiverfull, submissive, complementarian view as opposed to being what I really am – a mom of an only child who forms her own opinions and who isn’t willing to compromise her beliefs for the sake of more page hits each day. That may sound cynical, but I think it is true.
What an articulate answer to my question, Sallie. Thank you so very much.
For me, personally, I am certain that I will never find a church that fits with all of my convictions 100%. If I needed a perfect theological fit, I might never set foot in a church again. Central to my expression of faith is to find a faith community in which I can pose hard questions and respectfully challenge the status quo. If I were to find myself in relationship with a church in which I sat passively nodding every Sunday, I think I would feel like my soul had fallen asleep.
Sallie, please forgive me…I did not mean to cause controversy on your lovely blog. I was just asking about your views as one mom to another because out girls are rather close in age, and this is a topic that has especially been on my mind. Mainly, I was just wondering how you plan to show that women can be strong and feminine at the same time (I also read the “Princess” article over at True Womanhood). For me, this is a problem because, during my teenage years, I was living in an EXTREMELY conservative little town where women were not always treated with very much respect. Unfortunately, many hid behind the Bible. It was so hurtful to me on so many different levels. My father died when I was 15, and my mother and I were told that we were like ships without a captain because we had no male head…as if we had chosen to be in that situation! It is because of this time in my life that this issue worries me. I never want my daughter to feel like she is less because she is a girl. I love your blog, and never meant to cause you stress.