One of my most popular posts is Raising a Spirited Child and Feeling Like a Bad Mother. I wrote it when Caroline was about three and a half and I was so frustrated with her bedtimes. Many people end up on this blog looking for information on spirited children and make their way to my Raising a Highly-Sensitive and Spirited Child page or one of the posts I’ve written on this topic.
Every once in awhile I see a search engine phrase in my StatCounter listing that just breaks my heart. You can tell by the search phrase that the person is really struggling with parenting a spirited child. A few times I’ve wanted to be able to write to her or contact her to offer encouragement, but there is no way for me to do that unless she leaves a comment.
Today I received an email from someone and it made me realize I need to do an update on the content of that post from two and a half years ago. The email said:
Dear Sallie,
I just came across the above post from 2010 and as I read it, I started thinking, “Did I write this?” I could have – word for word. I am an introverted mother of a spirited toddler who will be up until 9:30 -10 PM. even with a 7:30 start time on her bedtime routine, every night. No matter how patient I try to be during the day, at night I have none after the third request for a hug and kiss or to put her sheet back on. Please tell me it gets easier!
Thank you!
Yes, it does get easier in many ways. (And in a few ways it hasn’t.) But here we go!
I’m going to share what I’ve learned in parenting Caroline. The following may or may not work for other parents and their spirited children. But I can honestly say that I’ve been there done that in a way that a lot of other parents of non-spirited children haven’t. I’ve survived infanthood, toddlerhood, the preschool years and kindergarten with a spirited child.
Not only have I survived, I’ve gotten to the point where I enjoy my spirited child.
She’s a whirlwind of joy and enthusiasm. She is a great little girl who is kind, helpful, thoughtful, compassionate, creative, imaginative… so many wonderful things. But it took me awhile to get to the point where I really enjoyed her and not just looked for ways to cope with her spiritedness. Here’s what I’ve learned. See what you can glean to use in your own home and ignore anything that doesn’t make sense for your particular child.
Filling the Spirited Child’s Tank
The biggest thing I have learned is that you have to fill the tank completely before bedtime. When a spirited child’s tank is full, she is more apt to go quietly to bed. And by filling the tank I mean emotionally she feels full, verbally she’s gotten it all out, creatively she’s fully expressed herself, and physically she has had enough action during the day. This might sound obvious, but for an introverted parent it can be so hard to make sure a spirited child has a full tank in every way. It takes so much out of us to interact sufficiently with a spirited child. But I do think this is the biggest thing. When Caroline has gotten lots of attention, activity, and play she generally goes to bed quite well now.
Adjust Bedtime Expectations
Re: bedtimes. Caroline is on the very short end of the spectrum when it comes to sleep needs. She only needs about ten hours. So she’s up most nights until around 10 and she’s awake between 7 and 8. There’s nothing we can do about it. We’ve just had to learn to adjust our expectations in the evenings. I now go to bed later and get up later than I would prefer. I don’t get up before her even though I wish I could. But I need my sleep in order to function well. As she gets older and more independent, this will probably change. But for now this is what we’ve learned we have to do.
A Break for Mommy Before Bed
Related to this is my need for a humorous, vegetative break each night. Every night I watch something funny before I go to bed. The Cosby Show, Home Improvement, whatever. No drama and nothing serious. I have a snack and relax with something that makes me laugh. It really does make a difference in how I feel and it allows me to unwind in a way that reading or heavy content DVDs don’t.
Helping Spirited Children Fall Asleep
Spirited children are not good self soothers. I’ve read this in numerous places and believe it to be true. They have a very hard time turning off their minds because they are so full of ideas and questions. We always had to rock Caroline to sleep when she was little. I think we rocked her to sleep until she was three. Many nights she still needs help falling asleep. Either she wants David to rub her back or I sing Christmas carols to her (year round!).
Eventually this will end, but we got to the point where we accepted this is what she needs from us and we do it with a good attitude (most nights). Even then we will think she must be asleep or almost there and her eyes will pop open and she’ll ask a string of questions about something or tell us a story she’s made up. We’ve learned to just let her talk at that point rather than trying to shush her and tell her to go to sleep. She has to get it out or she can’t sleep. Once she tells us whatever it is or we answer her questions, she goes right to sleep.
And Other Spirited Child Sleep Issues
Re: the not knowing if you are going to get a Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde in the morning… That definitely changed. I think she outgrew that around the time she was a preschooler. I was very glad for that!
Re: the length of time for her to go to sleep… We did shorten up the routine. When it became obvious to us that she was never going to go to sleep before ten no matter what, we adjusted things.
The bottom line is that you really cannot change them and their bedtime needs. I know that probably isn’t what parents of spirited children want to hear, but I believe with all my heart it is the truth. They have their own unique set of bedtime issues and it isn’t something you can “train” out of them. Somehow parents have to find a way to deal with the never-ending bedtime routine and needs.
Believe me when I say we tried every trick in the book, every bit of advice we could find, and nothing works. (Well, we didn’t try everything. We do not spank or threaten her. That’s not an option. Period.)
I hope this is helpful. If any parents are reading this, feel free to leave comments or questions! There are a few other parents of spirited children (some grown) who read and comment here as well. You are not alone! There are other parents who understand.
Read More to Understand Your Spirited Child
jen
Thank you for sharing this information. I felt pressure to get my spirited 8-year-old son to bed earlier thinking he will be so tired the next day. He seems manic at bedtime, wide awake, talking, sharing about something that made him sad at school etc. We have tended to stay with our children until they fall asleep and sometimes let my spirited 8-Year-old draw or read until he falls asleep. He says that these things help him to feel tired. Tonight felt frustrating because he was doing everything he could to keep his younger brother who is 6 awake. the 8 year old is a control child and I kept taking deep breaths because my anger was growing as bedtime had passed over two hours.
I loved the information you shared as it is a good reminder and also advice that makes sense. It also was very normalizing and freed me to feel less of a bad Mom and to instead focus on my child and his needs. Thank you so much. What a gift you are giving my family. I think my son also sensed that I really wanted him to go to sleep which was making him anxious and then of course he had a harder time falling asleep.
He fell asleep just after 9:30 tonight. We started at 7:15.
Sallie
Hi Jen,
Thanks for sharing your story. This post and these comments get read by so many parents every day. I know how encouraging it is to hear from other parents who “get it” about bedtime issues. I’m glad you found the post encouraging. 🙂
renee
Thank you thank you thank you!!! This describes my not-yet-3yr old to a T! What you said about spirited kids needing to be “full” really resonated with me. Mine won’t sleep until 10pm regularly or sometimes later if we’ve had a mellow day. And the waking up when about to drift off is so her! The other night she absolutely NEEDED to draw something (I now have a kids table with crayons and paper outside my bedroom door). Other times she will wake up and want to know why she can’t go into books to help the protagonist. Or she wants me to remind her which dinosaurs are omnivores. (What did parents do before google???)
thank you for making me feel ok about just going with the flow. I’ve had it with all the advice from people who just don’t know– saying things like “it’s a delay tactic,” or “you need to have a consistent routine,” or “start her bedtime earlier,” or “let her cry it out,” or “just tell her she is going to bed, no excuses, and she will fall asleep,” or “it’s going to take a lot of your willpower, but you need to <insert something completely contrary to what my gut tells me>.”
i I came to your site looking for advice on transitions, got some insight about my own increased drive toward perfectionism at my current job (huh– after 5yrs I’m apparently getting bored), and finally decided to comment on your sleep section. Thank you again!!!
(and I will gladly buy any books you have!)
Sallie
Renee,
I laughed at your comment about how did parents do this before Google. I totally agree in so many ways! I’m glad you found some helpful information throughout my site. I write what I do in the hope that the right person will come to the right post at the right time to find the help she/he needs!
Books are in the works, but nothing to sell today! Did you subscribe though so you can get the free ebook I offer? I think you would like it!
Lisa
Wow, this post and the comments that followed were exactly what I needed to read tonight. I just needed to know that I am not the only parent with an intense child, also I did not know to call him that until now. He is 5. We head up to his bedroom by 630, 7 at the latest in hope he will be asleep by 930/10. We read at least 10 books, he draws at his art desk, sometimes makes crafts, and sometimes even eats a second dinner! Sometimes he gets so into a book, he needs to recreate something that happens within it. Then I feel guilty getting a little snappy with him, because he’s not really doing anything wrong. I just don’t get my unwind time. Thank you for your posts. Reading them helps me feel less crazy, lol. Nice to read comments from other parents and hear their situations as well
Henriette Crouse
Thank you so much. Feels like we are raising the same child. Being a single mom with a full on job and an extremely spirited 4 year old I’m tired to the bone, but I will take this amazing girl anyday above any good sleeper. She just a never-ending joy full of surprises. Thank you for writing this. Now I can relax and just keep pushing on.
Heather
Oh my goodness, I wish I had found your page years ago! This is a spot-on description of my daughter. She is now 5 and we have figured most of this out by trial and error, but it’s nice to know that we are not alone. I just discovered your page today while doing a search on homeschooling; something I’m now considering with our daughter’s personality and way she learns. Thank you for providing such a wonderful resource and helpful articles.
Sallie
Hi Heather!
No, you aren’t alone. I wish I knew some of this from the beginning too. I hope you will find lots of helpful info on my website – that is why I do what I do. I also just started a Community area so feel free to ask any questions in there!
Welcome!
Sallie
Eve
Hi Sallie,
I commented on one of your posts many months ago. We’re still struggling. Our Amy is now 2 years and 4 months old. Is “high needs” as in, needs non-stop love all day and all night. If I’m not giving her attention and affection then my husband is, and it’s still never enough. Seeing the comments, I’d like to point out: I’m NOT an introvert. I’m extroverted, very affectionate, talk a lot to my daughter (who is also a chatty extrovert). My husband is also an extrovert. Guess what? It’s still not enough. We can’t fill her tanks. We’re running on empty. I’m well-aware of introvert/extrovert personality types, having studied that as part of my college education. So, for all the introverts worrying that you are drained because your extrovert child is draining your introvert reserves… well, we are both extroverts and we’re hurtin’! I’m so affectionate, I never DREAMED I could ever be so completely and constantly drained by someone’s needs for near-constant affection! Rather than an introvert/extrovert issue, it’s probably just the “high needs” child. It’s probably harder on introverts, but it’s no cakewalk for extroverts, either. I was high-needs, too, from what my (deceased) mom told me. Probably still am.
So, since she wakes me at night and naps have been dodgy, I (formerly a calm, hard-to-provoke person with an even temper) have become increasingly frustrated and angry, we’re trying hypnosis to help her sleep better. There’s a book called “The Rabbit who Wants To Fall Asleep” (absolutely NO affiliation here whatsoever) and it uses hypnosis to give the child cues to help them sleep. We are desperate. Just started today. So far, she got extremely drowsy but fought off the nap. I’m actually a certified and trained Hypnotherapist, but didn’t think it would work before since she was so young. Plus I wasn’t sure how to use hypnosis on a toddler. I’ve had child clients but none younger than age 8.
But Amy’s highly verbal so we’re trying it now. Many parents said it worked and I saw a clip online from that TV show “The Doctors”
Hope it works because I’m at the end of my rope. She’s woken me a half dozen times a night almost every night for two years. Lately she’s early-morning rising. Plus, I can’t wake before her anymore, I’m a morning person but just too tired now… Used to wake early and get my “me” time and coffee but that’s gone and now naps are all over the place and sometimes, no nap.
Hypnosis is very useful in clinical settings and for things like quitting smoking and sleep. I quit smoking after 20 years via hypnosis. So I *really* hope it works. We can’t function like this. I feel bad for getting so angry with her. It’s due to sleep deprivation. And no, we don’t spank, ever. But I feel guilty for yelling. She doesn’t deserve it. She’s adorable and sweet and so loving. She is so little. She’s the light of my life. But for the love of God, why is it so hard to give her what she needs when we give her all the love and affection we have? Other toddlers we know just don’t seem to need anywhere near so much attention.
Eva
Sallie
Hi Eva,
That’s tough. I’m sorry to hear how difficult things are. I’m not an expert, but I’ll throw a couple of things out there and you can see if any of it might be worth looking into.
Have you looked into kids who are sensory seekers? Here’s something that came up when I was searching and it has numerous overlaps with your description. I’m NOT saying this is the case but simply that it’s the thought that first popped into my head based one what you wrote.
http://www.child-behavior-guide.com/sensory-seeking.html
Have you tried altering her diet at all?
I’m an incredibly patient person too and the baby and toddler and even early preschool years pushed me to limits I never expected. And the sleep deprivation makes it all 1000 times worse. Truly. I’ve written before that I would crawl into bed at night too exhausted to read (which I always did), too exhausted to cry, and just feel like my life was over. I know some people will think I’m exaggerating, but it was TOUGH.
Let me know how the hypnosis goes. I’m really not familiar with anything about it so I’m curious how it works for you.
Hang in there! It will get easier. Truly. It doesn’t seem like it at times, but it does.
Eve
Hi, and thank you so much for your reply you are so kind. No, she has absolutely zero health problems. She has always been in excellent health, she never even spit up as a baby, (she’s never even vomited in her life – knock on wood!) She never had any digestive issues or food allergies. She still frequently nurses. She is never sick, and is developmentally advanced (two years and 4 months she does 24 piece jigsaw puzzles, speaks very long complex sentences). No learning issues, no spectrum disorders, no SPD, no repetitive behaviors, no odd or compulsive behavior. No allergies, not food, not seasonal, not even soaps. Health wise she’s the easiest child imaginable. Zero stress, no worries. Ironic, eh? I feel guilty sometimes for complaining when there are parents with kids with serious illnesses, leukemia, etc. Thank you for understanding the sleep deprivation. The worst is when people with easier kids think it’s in your head… We are trying this sleep book now… Hope it works.
Thanks again.
Nicolette
I let out a tear of joy reading this. My first and only child is spirited and it took me a long time to realize this. I am very introverted and struggled with PPD after having my daughter. A year and a half later I am better than ever and am so in love with her despite our challenges. I look forward to learning all aspects of her personality and needs and this piece was really helpful thank you!!
Sallie
Hi Nicolette!
I am so thankful this post encouraged you and was what you needed. I believe it helps so much to know we are not alone. Some children just take so much more work and it has nothing to do with us as parents. I’m glad you feel so much love toward your daughter even though she is challenging. I do believe it will continue to grow. The older my daughter gets (she’s eleven right now), the more I marvel at what a fascinating person she is. I knew when she was little that it was true even though it was more challenging to understand. It’s fun to see it more clearly now. 🙂
Sallie
Mike
I’m not sure if this thread is still being checked. I hope it is.
We have a spirited almost 4-year-old. Up until January, her bedtime was consistent and simple. Then my wife had major surgery and we upended our bedtime routine for 2 months. When my wife was able to participate in them again, she always gave extra everything to try and rebuild that bond.
Around May, we noticed that it seemed like our daughter had begun to take advantage of this. The requests and ensuing tears were a mix of real and not real. She pivoted quickly when we closed off one of her one-mores.
We have been dealing with this at a maximum capacity for the past 2 months, though it feels like it’s been 2 years. We are routinely up with her either tantruming or needing SOMETHING til 11 or 12 at night. Then it’s do chores and/or catch up on work for an hour and then straight to bed until we get up at 6 to start over. There is little-to-no downtime for either of us.
Part of this is what I call the Mom Magnet. She will tantrum when I close the door for Mom. This goes one of two ways:
1) If Mom comes in, she’s in there negotiating for up to an hour. This often ends in tears and frustration, often on both sides.
2) If I come in, I try to hold the boundary. (My wife wonders if this is cruel.) I say that Mom is in bed and I can tuck her in again if she wants. When this doesn’t work, I stand outside the door for 5-10 minutes until kiddo stops asking for Mom and asks for me. Then I re-tuck her in (refuse any requests for songs/stories/one-more anything) and she goes to bed.
I may be biased because it’s, well, me, but I don’t believe my method is cruel. I see it as enforcing boundaries — I still provide comfort and am patient, I just don’t negotiate.
For what it’s worth, there have been a few times out of necessity when I was doing bedtime solo a few nights in a row. I used my method above and we actually had peace for about 2 weeks, including bedtimes pulled back to 9:30/10. It slipped and reset a few weeks ago. I tried this again, then we had one good week, but on the next funky night, Mom went in and we are back in the routine.
I’m wondering if 1) is there a good way or bad way? Mom feels like her negotiating and extra time is fulfilling a spirited’s extra needs. I feel like it’s playing into her persistent hand of pull the lever/get the payoff. 2) Is the inconsistency between our methods making things worse?
Thank you for any input!
Sallie
Hi Mike,
I’m sorry it has taken me a few days to respond. It’s hard to know exactly what’s going on since I’m not there and don’t see all of you interact. But here’s my first response when I read your comment.
The thing that jumps out to me is that your wife had surgery and your family life was upended for a few months. I say that as someone who had major health issues around the time my daughter was 3 and it seriously disrupted our relationship in multiple ways. Your daughter acting out at bedtime might be sincerely rooted in something that she can’t express. You mentioned she’s not even four yet. She’s not capable of abstract thought or reasoning out what is going on in her head and heart. All she knows is her world was seriously rocked when her mother was ill and not available for her in the normal ways. What you see as fake tears might be “fake” in the way we would see it, but she may very well be manipulating the situation because it’s the only way she can figure out how to get what she wants (which she can’t fully articulate).
Does that make sense?
You might also look at this post I wrote. It talks about and has links regarding age disequilibrium which I think causes a LOT of problems that we don’t realize as parents. It says homeschooling in the title, but it still applies to all families.
https://sallieborrink.com/age-disequilibrium-and-homeschooling-stress/
Sallie
Jenna
I found this today and am in need of help with a spirited child. We are having sleep issues and pre-school issues. My first child is somewhat spirited, but my second is all the way and I am struggling. She wakes up most nights since Sept around 2-3 am and no matter what I try I cannot get her to fall back asleep until 5 am right before my alarm goes off. I have tried moving her bedtime up, moving her bedtime back, taking away naps, etc. Nothing seems to work. I really think it is on days when as you put it in this article her tanks not full. But I don’t know how to fill it on these days.
Which leads me to the next issue of preschool. She is being held back in her currently classroom based on her emotions. However, that is causing her emotions to get worse. The feedback is for silly stuff like not going to the bathroom when they tell her to. She self regulates that at home without me having to intervene so I understand as a strong willed girl why should would put up a fight to that. How have you handled how to discuss these issues with teachers so that the child thrives and isn’t held back when academically and socially they are very strong. I feel like they are seeing her personality as an immature emotional awareness when I believe it is the exact opposite. I know this is just preschool but I am guessing this will continue to be an issue as we move into kindergarten and beyond.
Sallie
Hi Jenna,
Thanks for leaving your comment. You didn’t say how old your daughter is so I’m guessing maybe three since you said she goes potty but may be held back in preschool (but didn’t mention kindergarten as immediate).
I’m not sure if you saw this post I wrote, but three and a half is a TOUGH age.
https://sallieborrink.com/three-and-a-half-year-old-drama-and-a-child-who-doesnt-want-to-go-to-church/
I agree with you (based on what you said) that she is more mature emotionally than they are probably giving her credit for. Some kids simply will not cooperate with things they know don’t make sense. And let’s face it. Ordering kids to go to the bathroom on demand according to adult schedules is stupid. It’s for the convenience of the adults. If she can self-regulate at home and hasn’t had any problems at school, then it WOULD be annoying for her to be told when to go to the bathroom.
If she is academically and socially strong, but “uncooperative” then holding her back is not going to work IMHO. If she is spirited, that isn’t going to change with more time. It’s simply going to make her more angry and emotionally frustrated.
We didn’t do preschool and we’ve always homeschooled for a number of reasons. One of them is the fact that my daughter would have never fit in at school. I knew that as a former teacher and it was later confirmed when we had her tested for giftedness and twice-exceptionality. The doctors who tested her said they are normally on the fence about homeschooling, but that it was the best choice for our daughter because the classroom would be a terrible fit for her strengths and weaknesses.
I say all that because I don’t have experience in how to work as a parent with teachers who don’t understand. I can say that if you want your daughter to have a classroom experience and/or homeschooling is simply off the table (for whatever reason), you’ll need to be persistent in advocating for your daughter. And not just this year, but every year and all year.
If you really believe they don’t understand your daughter, then you need to give them real proof and back it up. Offer suggestions for accommodations to make things work better for her and the teachers. Kids who don’t fit the “normal” classroom parameters are assumed to be “deficient” and that simply isn’t always the case. Sometimes they are different in really good ways that will serve them well in life. It just doesn’t fit with a rigid classroom structure.
It’s also possible she’s gifted which brings with it it’s own set of issues. I have a lot of posts about giftedness that you can find via the website menu. If you want some specific suggestions, let me know.
Does that help at all? Thoughts?
Sallie
Lisa
I feel a little less like a failure after reading this post. I can’t get my 1.5 year old girl on a sleeping schedule. There is just not enough hours in a day for the schedule she needs so she just goes to bed later and later about every night. I also have the added problem of not being successful in taking her bottle away. I have taken it away from day time but she just can’t sleep without it and mom holding her. I have tried taking it away before, but after she cries for a hour plus on 9 hours of total sleep for the day whats a mom to do? I will keep trying and it will eventually happen. Happy to see other parents have kids that sleep 8 to 10 hours total in a day. I have been worried about her being sleep deprived.
Aubrey K Baldwin
Hi sallie, thank you for your site. It’s been so helpful to read someone else’s experiences.
My almost 4 year old daughter is definitely spirited. I have two other children and the baby is up usually 2-4 times a night. My 4 year old has a hard time not just winding down for the day but especially staying asleep all night or at least not waking us up. She worries a lot. She has a hard time going to preschool but I need the break and our relationship is better when I get a break.
I’m just SO tired. We read books and lay with her each night and talk so I feel like I’m really trying in that regard to fill her cup emotionally. I don’t mind that it takes her longer to fall asleep. It’s the wake ups during the night that are slowly killing me. Being woken up 4+ times a night by two children is really taking a toll on me and my husband.
Do you have any advice? I don’t want to threaten her but I am just at a loss. Every night she knocks on our door at least once needing to be put back in her bed. She shares a room with her sister who is a great sleeper and NEEDS her sleep,( 11 hours of it!) to function well at kindergarten.
Sallie Borrink
Hi Aubrey,
I apologize it’s been over a week since you wrote and I’m just now responding.
A few things that you may have already thought of and explored, but in an attempt to not leave any possibility missed…
Bath/shower time can impact a child’s ability to sleep. For some children it calms them. For others (like mine) it energizes them. Bath time too close to bed can mess up sleep.
What kinds of books are you reading? Low-key or highly-engaging? Some children can’t do read alouds at bedtime if it gets their creative mind going.
What kinds of foods at bedtime snack? Are they boring carbs/fats/proteins that will keep her blood sugar at good levels until morning? Will she wake up in the middle of the night with a sugar crash?
Is she getting a LOT of physical activity? Is her body tired when she goes to sleep?
When do you turn off the electronics in your home? Is she off them early enough to allow her brain to process and shut down?
Have you removed all the electronics from their bedroom, especially near the bed? If you can’t move them out, can you put them in drawers or the closet at night? Are the devices on power strips so you can cut all the power running to them (even on standby)?
Is her sister a quiet sleeper? It’s possible sharing a room with someone else might be waking her up.
Those are some things off the top of my head. My guess is there is something that is waking her up and/or she’s not tired enough to crash and sleep hard through the night.
Any thoughts?
Sallie
Sallie Borrink
I also just realized your daughter is three and a half. Did you see this post? Three and a half is considered one of the most difficult ages. I found that to be very true.
https://sallieborrink.com/three-and-a-half-year-old-drama-and-a-child-who-doesnt-want-to-go-to-church
And also this post which is also about homeschooling but has applications for all parents.
https://sallieborrink.com/age-disequilibrium-and-homeschooling-stress