According to Doug Wilson’s post on John Piper’s Desiring God website, it is this:
We must be masculine in our ministry for the sake of the women in our congregations. Because men are naturally competitive, they are more prone to see the differences between the sexes in terms of that competition. Women are more realistic at this point, and do not make this mistake as often. The best thing in the church for the women is for the men to be men. For a man to teach the word of God with authority (and not as the scribes) is not withholding anything from the women at all — it is a gift to the women. Godly women are grieved by usurping women, and annoyed by effeminate men. They are fed by men who teach the Bible with boldness. They need that sort of provision and protection, and they know that they do. We should know that also.
Um, based on what?
For starters, how is it biblical that the best thing for women is to be defined by how men perform in church?
Where does Jesus state or even imply that the quality of a woman’s faith and walk with Christ be determined by what the men around her do?
Do you agree or disagree?
If this isn’t the best thing in the church for women, what is?
Should Women Proclaim the Gospel to Men?
(Insert crickets chirping here…)
Interesting. Lots of people reading this post. No comments. Hmmm…. Does that mean people think I’ve lost it? Or are they not sure? Are they thinking about it? (These are the questions that go through my mind…)
(I’m just being funny.)
Perhaps some, like me, are letting this marinate in the context of your other recent posts, with which there is some thematic overlap. There’s no shortage of comments on those.
For what it’s worth I was thinking of leaving a comment on this post concerning Wilson’s constant and annoying tendency to speak of men’s need to “protect” women — even during worship, without ever really specifying (1) what the threat is; and (2) why men are presumably immune to this thread. I went around and around on Wilson’s blog asking him for clarification on this, but, of course, he never answered my question specifically. Some of his posse of readers attempted to respond–some more effectively than others. But Wilson? Never heard from him. This is a man who posts to his blog more regularly than most people move their bowels. But sticking around to remain accountable for what he writes by answering specific questions. I guess that’s too much to ask.
Speaking of “too much to ask,” now, aren’t you happy someone finally posted on this thread, Sallie? 😉
Hi Sergius,
It’s just unusual to have a lot of hits on a post and have no one say anything. But, yes, I would guess people are ruminating. I’m still thinking about this myself. I just didn’t want to say too much until I gave people the opportunity to speak up first. 🙂
There is so much wrong with that quote, it’s difficult to even begin writing down some of my thoughts. I expect that’s a contributing factor in why so many people have viewed this without commenting.
For starters, the blatant stereotyping of men. “All” men are naturally competitive? Really? How do the laid back men, the non-confrontational men, fit in to that view? What about competitive women? I am quite competitive, I suppose I don’t exist? I must grieve true “Godly” women, I suppose.
Also, men see the differences between men and women, and want to be competitive with both, but women don’t see differences and don’t make the mistake of seeing differences as often? Huh? His thought process is gobbley-gook.
For me personally, I am fed by the Holy Spirit. Not ‘men preaching the Bible with boldness’. In my opinion, what he is advocating is the worship of men, not the worship of God. To be so male-centric, he’s preaching a religion of phallic worship.
Yes, Sarah says it well. There is so much wrong that it’s overwhelming to get started. I second her comments.
I also have the same questions about protection Sergius Martin-George does. I don’t know what threatens all the comp/pat women. I know Piper, et al usually talk about a knock on the door at 2 a.m. When I have interacted with other women on Facebook, they, too, have talked about how the husband’s authority gives him the responsibility of protection and have been given the same scenario. I was all to pleased to let them know when that scenario did play out at our home, after waking my husband, we BOTH went to the door. I also suggested that if a comp/pat husband is always on guard to protect his wife maybe the couple should move to a new neighborhood. Wilson is speaking here in terms of the assembly which makes me wonder if he, like Driscoll, believe women are more gullible and need to be protected from being deceived. In either case, I think Sarah’s “scientific” term goggbley-gook fitting.
So, from his post, Wilson himself practices a feminine submissiveness as he listens to a manly pastor giving a sermon? That is just getting a little weird.
I do understand what he is saying about preaching the Word with authority and conviction…our recently retired pastor preached the Gospel of Christ with boldness, and that is one of the things we most appreciated about him. But you can respectfully listen to an authoritative voice and still be one yourself.
Also, one snark: from the slant of the post you’d think there were hordes of men clamoring to serve in the church kitchens and nurseries and neglecting the pulpit…haven’t ever seen that myself.
I agree with him that it would be better for the women in the church if the men were better men, but that has to include giving women room to fully wield their spiritual gifts. Otherwise, why bother feeding women with the Word at all?
I guess I thought the best thing that happens in church was the glorification / worship of God the Creator. It would appear Doug Wilson is saying, the supposed competition between men and women takes center stage in the church and for women to truly benefit from the Scripture men must win the fight? Where does the Holy Spirit and His ministry of communicating truth to the soul’s of believers come into play? Somehow the purpose of God’s glorification and acknowledgement of His omnipotent ability to reveal Himself through the scripture is lost in Doug Wilson’s thought process. The best thing in the church is for men and women to acknowledge God’s rightful place in the His house, to trust in the ministry of His Spirit and rightfully acknowledge His ability to do His work. God ensures the feeding of His flock regardless of the “manliness” of the under shepherd.