I’ve been participating in a discussion at The Gospel Coalition on Why Is TCG Complementarian? There is a video and post that generated a good deal of discussion and some truly excellent comments.
I tried to comment anonymously and used a fake name (Sarah Ida Shaw, my sorority’s founder – LOL!), but my avatar picture popped up so someone might have been able to identify me. I’m going to post one of my comments here because I want to elaborate further.
If one assumes both views are biblical and embraced by people who love Christ and see the Scriptures as their authority, then I think it is prudent to ask about the potential long-term outcomes of each. One of the questions I come back to time and again when thinking about these issues is this.
Which view will bring about the greatest harm to the church and individuals if it is wrong?
IMHO the complementarian view is by far the most damaging if it is wrong. It limits half of the church and prevents women from “flourishing” (the latest positive spin word in complementarian circles) in their God-given gifts.
I don’t agree with the comment in the video (I think it was Piper) that the problems with our society all stem from a lack of complementarianism and egalitarianism run amok. Our society has not been shaped the past few decades by Christian egalitarians who are mutually serving each other out of love for Christ. It has been greatly impacted by feminism to be sure. But secular feminism and Christian egalitarianism are NOT the same thing. Secular feminism is not about serving each other with the heart of Christ. If our culture has been shaped by anything Christian, it has been male-led movements that have done nothing to really change marriages or the church and have continued to marginalize women. Christian women don’t need to be empowered by secular feminists. They need to be empowered by their brothers in Christ.
Do people really believe that if the church adopted egalitarianism and encouraged women to utilize their gifts freely alongside their brothers in Christ that the church would somehow fall apart? Seriously? When you see the gifted women out there using their gifts in complementarian circles you really think the church would be completely damaged if they spoke that same message to a mixed group on Sunday morning?
Warmly,
Sarah
In summary, to blame all of the failures in our culture on a lack of complementarianism is just silly. To say that our society is crumbling around us because of wide-spread egalitarianism is false. Secular feminism and Christian egalitarianism are NOT the same thing. I think that is going to become my new tagline because it drives me nuts to see people assuming they are one and the same. They are not even close.
- Secular feminism is about power for women.
- Christian egalitarianism is about men and women in the Body of Christ serving one another according to their God-bestowed gifts without regard for whether they are male or female.
So to continue with my question in the comment.
Let’s suppose the church adopted the Christian egalitarian view. This would mean:
- Men and women would serve the Body of Christ based on their God-bestowed gifts.
- Husbands and wives would submit and defer to one another with the love of Christ.
- Christian men and women would encourage one another as brothers and sisters in the Lord.
- Men would delight to see women flourish in their faith and women would delight to see men flourish in their faith.
- Christ would be the head of all and everyone would seek to imitate Christ’s love and humility toward each other.
Sounds scary, doesn’t it? I mean wow. All this kindness and love. What to do?
How would the world respond? I think they would be stunned and in the best sense of the word.
And I believe it would significantly remove many of the stumbling blocks to salvation in Christ. Far more than complementarianism ever could.
I agree! Thanks for writing this out so articulately.
I agree! Thanks for writing this out so articulately.
I frequently have people tell me that without order in marriage there will be chaos. My reponse is: Mutual respect, consideration and deference does not produce chaos.
Presently, in my hometown of Sydney, some Sydney Anglicans, including the archbishop, have caused a stink by bringing the specious doctrine of “wifely submission” into the market place. This has led to the Word of God being blasphemed and Christianity being maligned – the very things Paul wanted to avoid.
Links in case anyone is interested:
This made front page news: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/to-love-and-to-submit-a-marriage-made-in-2012-20120824-24ru7.html
And from the archbishop: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/men-and-women-are-different-and-so-should-be-their-marriage-vows-20120828-24yo6.html
A reponse:http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/no-place-for-spirited-women-20120826-24u8v.html#ixzz24hnJ2GeP
This the witness that complementarian Sydney Anglicans are presently bringing to Australia. And it is causing a degree of chaos.
I frequently have people tell me that without order in marriage there will be chaos. My reponse is: Mutual respect, consideration and deference does not produce chaos.
Presently, in my hometown of Sydney, some Sydney Anglicans, including the archbishop, have caused a stink by bringing the specious doctrine of “wifely submission” into the market place. This has led to the Word of God being blasphemed and Christianity being maligned – the very things Paul wanted to avoid.
Links in case anyone is interested:
This made front page news: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/to-love-and-to-submit-a-marriage-made-in-2012-20120824-24ru7.html
And from the archbishop: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/men-and-women-are-different-and-so-should-be-their-marriage-vows-20120828-24yo6.html
A reponse:http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/no-place-for-spirited-women-20120826-24u8v.html#ixzz24hnJ2GeP
This the witness that complementarian Sydney Anglicans are presently bringing to Australia. And it is causing a degree of chaos.
I think Gordon Fee argued this way also, what is lost if one side is wrong? Both sides cannot be right.
Anyway, thanks for your post.
I think Gordon Fee argued this way also, what is lost if one side is wrong? Both sides cannot be right.
Anyway, thanks for your post.
Christians demonstrating sacrificial love for each other? This is (a) never wrong and (b) it would be impressive. (Says a non-Christian).
Christians demonstrating sacrificial love for each other? This is (a) never wrong and (b) it would be impressive. (Says a non-Christian).
Now that I got that little rant about the Sydney Anglicans off my chest …
Here is something I have written previously about the witness of Christian egalitarianism, something I still passionately believe:
I truly believe that the church, and the world, would be in much better shape if godly Christian men and women could minister together as equals and be treated as equals. If the western, Evangelical Church could embrace the counter-cultural values that Jesus taught, and lead the way in gender equality within the family, church and society, I believe that there will be some overflowing affect that will benefit women of other cultures where the subjugation of women is particularly oppressive and even brutal. I am personally very saddened that the Christian church is not leading the way in demonstrating and promoting full gender equality.
Now that I got that little rant about the Sydney Anglicans off my chest …
Here is something I have written previously about the witness of Christian egalitarianism, something I still passionately believe:
I truly believe that the church, and the world, would be in much better shape if godly Christian men and women could minister together as equals and be treated as equals. If the western, Evangelical Church could embrace the counter-cultural values that Jesus taught, and lead the way in gender equality within the family, church and society, I believe that there will be some overflowing affect that will benefit women of other cultures where the subjugation of women is particularly oppressive and even brutal. I am personally very saddened that the Christian church is not leading the way in demonstrating and promoting full gender equality.
Thank you for the great comments.
I have never understood the fear of chaos argument. Sacrificial love and serving one another cannot produce chaos.
Thank you for the great comments.
I have never understood the fear of chaos argument. Sacrificial love and serving one another cannot produce chaos.